Fuel Map

[swrx2810]

When I get my scooby from Japan do I need to get it remapped to run on UK fuel? I was told by one company I don't need to if I run on higher than 98+ octane. Is that right?

Also if I need to get it mapped would it be okay to wait a few months before doing it? The car won't be used every day anyway.

[SpecB]

Japanese fuel is usually 100RON - Tesco is 99 so in theory you should be OK to run on High Octane UK Fuels (e.g. Tesco Momentum or Shell Optimax) without a remap but personally I'd want the car mapped to the UK fuels. My car is Mapped to Momentum and runs like a dog if I have to put normal fuel in it in an emergency and I would never run the car on high boost if it had bad fuel in.

On a side note many cars do not get on with the BP Ultimate mine included!

[swrx2810]

Okay I have a Shell up the road from me, V-Power I assume?

[Red Baron]

All done at the same time, make any mods you want, guessing decat, 255lph fuel pump and K&N or similar filter will be the first stage and then give Duncan or one of the other recommendations a call and say hello to an easy 330bhp.

[swrx2810]

I wasn't planning on making any mods.

[SpecB]

Running the car on V-Power or Momentum should be ok, a re-map cost will depend if you go for open source or ECU-TEK budget £200 - £500, the cost of the map will be the same wether you get a UK fuel map or a power remap tbh. I'd stick a filter and exhaust swap on the car then get it remapped if it was me, driving it fairly conservatively on 98/99 Ron until that point.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by BlueBugEye

My car is Mapped to Momentum and runs like a dog if I have to put normal fuel in it in an emergency

Something wrong there then mate. It shouldn't run like a dog.
There may be a touch less torque on light throttle/mild boost, but only if the ECU has the ability to detect the lower octane and pulled a couple of degree's timing.
You may 'just' about be able to feel it.
If it doesn't have the ability to pull timing and the ignition advance is set to the absolute final 1/4 degree you would see tinkles on the knock link but still feel very little effect on driveability.

With regard to running a Jap import on UK fuel :
The later Subaru's had better Jap fuel/ignition maps then some of the V1/V2 RA's etc....

Prodrive actually fitted a Jap ECU Map into the UK Prodrive upgrade. So they clearly thought it was safe.
The P1 also runs a Jap Map despite what media stated (I have seen both STI VI and P1 maps).

A lot of it is scare mongering by the tuning fraternity in order for you to hand over folder matter.

That said, if it were mine I would be changing the exhaust, fitting a good panel filter, getting the boost increased from 1bar to 1.5bar and setting up the drive by wire throttle to give 80% boost (1-1.2bar) at 50% throttle for a nice responsive throttle. The fuel/ignition timing would then be setup accordingly.

[SpecB]

I should have been more specific - the ks3 and the knock detection on the Syvecs go mad if I use full boost when on 95 Ron. The logs show the ECU is pulling timing after the knock events but on normal driving I rarely get a peak above 20 on the ks3 with 95 Ron I'll hit 40-50 on the same drive.

[Scott.T]

Just checked a copy of JDM, USDM and Prodrive PPP in an 06/07 STi .

Fuelling -
JDM : 9.8AFR
USDM : 10.94AFR
Prodrive UK PPP : 11.07AFR

Ignition Timing -
JDM : 26 Degree's with 9 Degree's of possible retardation (so can pull back to 17)
USDM : 21 Degree's with 7 Degree's of possible retardation (so can pull back to 14)
Prodrive UK PPP : 21 Degree's with 5 Degree's of possible retardation (so can pull back to 16)

All the above were read of the map at 5200rpm, load of approx. 2.8 (for reference)

So you can see that the JDM map runs more advance but runs considerably richer, which negates the advantage of running the higher advance. Horses for courses and several ways to skin it.
All have the ability to pull considerable timing, so all should be safe to run various grades of fuel. But for optimum performance you want it running the 'max' possible ignition advance, so the high RON the more chance you have of hitting that max figure.

Once you are at the max figure there is no gain from high octane, and it will only act as a safety net and prevent detonation cause by heat build-up i.e sustained high speed, high torque, slow rpm transitioning.

[swrx2810]

Could you recommend a remap company I could talk to?

[swrx2810]

Originally Posted by Scott.T

Just checked a copy of JDM, USDM and Prodrive PPP in an 06/07 STi .

Fuelling -
JDM : 9.8AFR
USDM : 10.94AFR
Prodrive UK PPP : 11.07AFR

Ignition Timing -
JDM : 26 Degree's with 9 Degree's of possible retardation (so can pull back to 17)
USDM : 21 Degree's with 7 Degree's of possible retardation (so can pull back to 14)
Prodrive UK PPP : 21 Degree's with 5 Degree's of possible retardation (so can pull back to 16)

All the above were read of the map at 5200rpm, load of approx. 2.8 (for reference)

So you can see that the JDM map runs more advance but runs considerably richer, which negates the advantage of running the higher advance. Horses for courses and several ways to skin it.
All have the ability to pull considerable timing, so all should be safe to run various grades of fuel. But for optimum performance you want it running the 'max' possible ignition advance, so the high RON the more chance you have of hitting that max figure.

Once you are at the max figure there is no gain from high octane, and it will only act as a safety net and prevent detonation cause by heat build-up i.e sustained high speed, high torque, slow rpm transitioning.

Thanks Scott. The highest we have in the UK is 98?

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by BlueBugEye

I should have been more specific - the ks3 and the knock detection on the Syvecs go mad if I use full boost when on 95 Ron.

Ermmm.. I'm not surprised. Mine starts shouting on BP SUL on random high boost events.
But it's very random and un-repeatable, so I can't track down the specific map cell's. I'm loathe to pul timing from a group of cells that don't require it, so it's easier just to not use BP.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by swrx2810

Thanks Scott. The highest we have in the UK is 98?

Regular UL is 95
Super UL in most places is 97
Tesco Momentum is 99
Shell V-power is 99

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by swrx2810

Could you recommend a remap company I could talk to?

Duncan at http://www.racedynamix.co.uk/remap/

He used to do OpenSource mapping which is cheaper then ECUTEK, as you need to by a licence for the ECU with ECUTEK.
I am not sure what he does now, but there's about £200 different between versions and no difference in the end result.
You are just paying for the tool to open your ECU's brain rather then it's capabilities.

Just think OpenOffice Vs Microsoft Office. Both are capable of generating a perfectly good document, if the operator is IT literate.

[swrx2810]

Thanks for all the advice .

[SpecB]

I've always found BP Ultimate to be appalling in my car in any state of tune, even when it was standard!

Even the Legacy doesn't like it!

Originally Posted by Scott.T

Ermmm.. I'm not surprised. Mine starts shouting on BP SUL on random high boost events.
But it's very random and un-repeatable, so I can't track down the specific map cell's. I'm loathe to pul timing from a group of cells that don't require it, so it's easier just to not use BP.

[Rdlangy1]

Ive always run mine on Momentum - and have continued to do so after Duncan's remap - seems ok to me and I get my clubcard points

[scotty]

Tesco in the wifes mondeo and v power nitro plus in my toy and nothing else .

[Rdlangy1]

Always used BP Ultimate Diesel in the Mondeo, and using same in the Audi

[NL03Scooby]

V-Power in my last 4 cars now, helps having a Shell Station to and from my work journey making it easily available. My MOT tester commented how clean my previous Scoob was on emissions, I think the V-Power really helps look after everything.

[thepieman]

Originally Posted by swrx2810

Could you recommend a remap company I could talk to?

Paul Blamire for a professional via Zen Performance or RCM


or SES's very own Scott.T if you can tempt him out of retirement

would be where my money would go

[Ginola]

Originally Posted by thepieman

Paul Blamire for a professional via Zen Performance or RCM


or SES's very own Scott.T if you can tempt him out of retirement

would be where my money would go

I think Paul also is only mapping "friends" cars these days too but I'm sure he can be tempted.

[thepieman]

Originally Posted by Ginola

I think Paul also is only mapping "friends" cars these days too but I'm sure he can be tempted.

Thought he was still doing some mapping even with the move to the ecutek job, Maybe it is just a few select ones he does now?

Still personally would only ever try and get Paul to do it or have a friendly word with Scott myself....