Blue smoke oh no......:(

[jayfold]

Hi everyone,
first post on here for me so please be gentle.... I own a 2000 classic saloon, mods are turbo timer, dump valve with a huge exhaust and rolling on 18s

Heres the problem, any ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated, ill try to explain all..

bought my scooby 3 months ago and it would sometimes kick out a puff of blue smoke on high revs in first gear, (above 5k revs) i was told this was normal for boxer engines and not to worry.

Anyway been driving it today and on the way to work the smoke was appearing when I was pulling up to stop in traffic and then spitting a bit out as i sat there and then it stopped.

Then on the way home it is now kicking it out constantly when driving but gets a little better when sat idling in traffic.

It has been burning about a litre of oil every 500 miles or so, so i thought there could be somthing about to go wrong

Im using 0w 40 mobil 1 oil which im now wondering if this is too thin,
I replaced the plugs, removed cone filter and back to a panel filter about 200 miles ago, I also checked what I think is the 02 sensor bolted into the top of the exhaust and that was covered in black soot which i cleaned and put back in.


It does idle erraticly sometimes and i was meaning to replace the maf sensor,
it has always smelt like its running rich but i wondered if that was due to the exhaust.

Thinking about it i wonder if the oil is the cause as i changed to the mobil 1 oil and i have now just got onto the 3rd litre of it, would the cold weather cause it to slip past the valve seals and be the reason why its buring oil,

Sorry about the essay guys, any help much appreciated......

[Anger]

Blue is oil and you shouldnt be burning that much oil... i use that on a 2.5 and there known for, but my old uk's oil level never changed

Sounds like it might be the piston rings failing, letting oil past and then burning it off

[jayfold]

Thanks for the replie anger

thats what i was worried about, it has got very bad very suddenly and theres no power loss, i was going to try changing the oil for somthing a bit thicker and cross my fingers, is it worth checking the breather pipes and if so what ones and where are they located.... ive been tring to get a manual but there only seems to be downloadable ones which im a bit aprehensive about...

[asperformance]

you want a min of a 10w oil in a classic BUT with an oil usage issue of 2ltrs/1000mile i suspect that you already have a more major issue (damaged piston would be my first guess)
does the engine shake at idle or sit smooth??
unscrew the oil filler cap and check for smoke, particuarly if you blip the throttle

alyn

[BIG"E"]

With whats been said before.

Also if you have changed the cone filter back to the standard box, I believe it might need remapping ??????
But I am no mechanic.

[jayfold]

Originally Posted by BIG"E"

With whats been said before.

Also if you have changed the cone filter back to the standard box, I believe it might need remapping ??????
But I am no mechanic.

thanks for the reply,

i was told the ecu in a classic will adjust automatically and initially the car ran fine straight after changing the filter, i did also do a ecu reset and all seemed fine, that was about a month ago.......starting to get worried now...

[jayfold]

Originally Posted by asperformance

you want a min of a 10w oil in a classic BUT with an oil usage issue of 2ltrs/1000mile i suspect that you laready have a morte major issue (damaged piston would be my first guess)
does the engine shake at idle or sit smooth??
unscrew the oil filler cap and check for smoke, particuarly if you blip the throttle

alyn

,
thanks for the reply,
car sits smooth at idle 70% of the time, and i think ive noticed puffs of smoke coming out the dipstick tube when i took that out last time, but that was white so i thought it could just be heat vapour escaping, ill check under the filler cap tommorow,

gonna change the oil this week end aswell,

do you think its adviseable to drive it 4 miles to work whiile im getting this sorted, im thinking not....

[scooby999]

I wouldn't .It doesnt sound to good ,i would see if you can get someone to look at it before you drive it

[asperformance]

to be honest with what you have already experienced i cant see a 4mile drive doing much further damage

[WRX_Paul]

Hi Jay,
Nice to see you on here but not good to hear about your problems, hope you get it sorted mate, they are a great bunch on here and have a lot of knowledge between them!
Paul (Shouler)

[RobEvo5]

IMO save your money and don't bother with an oil change. Use the money to let a garage check it out and diagnose the problem, which I'm affraid to say does sound like a piston ring.

But hey look on the bright side there are plenty of second hand blocks about for little money, and plenty of knowledgable mechanics about to drop it in or even repair your unit. I'm sure there is a few on this forum that could help you out.

Hope I'm wrong for your sake, but blue smoke nearly all the time = Bad news

[jayfold]

Originally Posted by WRX_Paul

Hi Jay,
Nice to see you on here but not good to hear about your problems, hope you get it sorted mate, they are a great bunch on here and have a lot of knowledge between them!
Paul (Shouler)

Cheers paul,

Yeah, not looking too good, smoke got a bit better today, i drove it off boost all the way to work and back and it was a lot better. Im gonna get it to a garage and see about a compression test... that should show up any problems with the internals of the engine i hope.

Not gonna give up on her although the misses is starting to worry... she'll soon change her tune when its running nice again and she can go out driving it like before, lol

[jayfold]

Hi peeps got an update,

Drove the car off boost today for about 10 minutes in the morning and evening and smoke seemed to be a bit better???? weird.... power and response still seems fine and the car is running as it always has....
took the oil filller cap off and there was some kind of vapour coming out that dispersed quickly, cant tell if its smoke or not...
It is still smoking a bit but definately better, ]
another thing i meant to ask is, i seem to get funny readings off the dipstick, one side is 5 or 6 inches up the dipstick and the other side is saying im just over the maximum mark.
Just to be clear, when i was driving home on the first day it started smoking i stopped to check the oil and the dipstick just had a little drop of oil on the end about 5mm up, so i put in about 400ml of the mobil 1 oil just to get it home.
This car is confusing a times, but definately going to get it in for a compression test and drive it like miss daisy in the mean time....
ill update as things develop...

The dipstick on Subaru's is a bit of a funny one, The top hole will show the oil level when cold, the top notch shows the oil level when hot.

To get a good reading, warm the car up, switch off and remove and wipe the dipstick. Leave the car for 5minutes or so with the dipstick out (allows oil to drain from the tube) Then check your levels.

Only read the front side, should have an 'L' and 'F' or 'H' on it, if it doesn't or you can't see anything, normally one side will have a neat line level on and the other will appear to be a bit smudged. (insert dipstick with picture facing forwards so you can read it)

You may find that this provides you with a reading similar on both sides it should certainly help you get a proper reading in any way....

Couldnt this just be a valve stem oil seal prob? I remember Majorscooby having the same or simmilar prob & that turned out to be his turbo seals

[jayfold]

starting to wonder the same myself nige, ive kept the car around 2500 revs for the last two days and smoke has got alot less, definately not smoking all the time now, gonna have a look tommorow as im off work till monday now.
Hope it is the turbo, good excuse for a new , big , shiney one with nice new clean hoses......

[Scott.T]

double check the oil levels, when hot as described above, you could just be overfilling it and it's blowwing it out through the vacum/boost pipes and being sucked back through the engine.

[asperformance]

easiet to stop any confusion is to only check when cold or has been stood for a reasonable time and make sure the car is level..............if checked when hot you can often show little or no oil in as its scattered around the heads, etc. and get a false reading

it coudl be you have simply over-filled the oil and its blowing out???

[jayfold]

Hi all,

Got the scoob down to a garage called RJ engineering in hove today who come highly reccomended for performance cars from a friend and hes gonna have a look at her for me....
i took the intercooler out and checked the top pipe on the turbo yesterday and there seemed to be quite a lot of oil about, so its starting to look like the turbo is most likely. there was also traces of oil on the dump valve....
Any way hes gonna give me a quote and then ill make a descsion on what to get done...
Its got a staright through exhaust and i was considering doing somthing about that as im now starting work at 6 am and i dont think the neighbours are as enthusiastic about the scooby as i am...lol
fingers crossed it dont get too pricey...: paranoid:

[scooberblue]

to be honest i think you have just over filled it.i did the same thing on my v3. i checked the oil while it was warm and the dip stick came out bone dry so as you do you top it up.my car was smokeing a treat an there was oil everywere under the bonnet.it seemed were id over filled it it was comeing threw the turbo oil seals and being sucked into the engine hence the smokeing and were it was in the intercooler everytime the dumpvalve released it was blowing oil everywere.i drained it out and stuck a new oil filter on with fresh oil and never had a problem with it after that and everytime i checked the dipstick when cold the oil level never dropped.

[jayfold]

gonna get that checked, i did drop the oil out on sunday and was careful re filling, i put just over 4 ltrs in and it looked all good

[jayfold]

Right, garage has diagnosed the that the turbo is causing the smoking and thst the oil had seen in the intercooler and dv was excessive, they have looked for a replacement and the cheepest so far is £1100, which must be a brand new one????
Anyone know any where reliable i could get one, just want a standard one as i need reliability.......

Thanks

[Jolly Green Monster]

£1100 for a 99 uk turbo lmfao.. remove the car from this garage

it sounds like either over filled with oil or turbo failed..

NO ecu adapts to mods by the way.

Simon

[asperformance]

not wishing to cause alarm but get a "compression" test carried out as its not that common for turbo's to fail that drastically.............

[Jolly Green Monster]

Good call yep

Also seen this where breathers where wrong

[jayfold]

sorry forgot to mention that the garage did say that that was a stupid amount and he was trying to source one at a much more realistic price, will definately ask about the comp test as i was wondering that myself, the mechanic is adament that it is the turbo due to the amount of play the shaft.....i do get nervous with garages and mechanics but i think this guys ok, hes done loads of work on my friends cars which include a DB9 and RS Focus,.....fingers crossed all will be ok

[Scott.T]

RobEvo 5 has a TD04 in his garage if you want a stock turbo (assuming your car is a UK). Send him a PM

[Jolly Green Monster]

that sounds better

[jayfold]

Bad times,

Picked up the car on friday with the new vf 28 turbo fitted and its still smoking, have driven it for about 100 miles hoping it was oil in the exhaust that just needed clearing out but checked the dip stick today and its bone dry,
Still kicking out loads of smoke when i pull away and most of the time on over run,

Im gutted, just spent £500 on the turbo and labour and still not right, its back down the garage now to see whats what, im thinking possibly the turbos failed again as symptoms are identical.......also going to insist on a compression test this time.

I did see my original turbo and it had definately failed as there was a huge amount of play in the shaft..... could i be that unlucky to have two turbos fail or could it be that i have a another problem and that the turbo happened to go at the same time or the original problem caused the failure...head really done in

Rubbish.....

[RobEvo5]

Gutted for you mate.

Very suprised the garage that fitted it didn't do a compression test first given the problems. You would be very unlucky to have 2 turbo's fail, and dare I say it I think you need to be focussing your attention towards the piston rings.

p.s That sounds like allot of labour cost as well. A turbo change is a 2 hour job to a garage, and bone dry after 100 miles seems a little suspect. You sure they put oil back in it...

Its bad enough having these sorts of problems, but to spend the money and be no further forward is gutting..

[Nick]

gutted to hear this mate,
Can asure the turbo wasn't a wrong'un
Hope all gets sorted soon

[asperformance]

hate to say i told you so but i have already stated a number of times in this thread that Turbo failure is uncommon and an engine check was required............

not sure what you spent £500 on when a compression check would have/will ID your problem in about 45mins at most

it sounds most likley that you have a piston failure and there is little wrong with your turbo

alyn

[jayfold]

Sorry guys ill explain....

£500 was what was spent on, Labour for removing and fitting of new turbo and included buying the new, turbo intercooler and DV (kindly thrown in!)

the garage also flushed the engine and put in fresh oil with a new filter.

The £500 includes all of the above with the what it cost me to transport the car the 30 miles to the garage with friends giving me lifts there and back.

Although the garage probably should have done a comp test first time around diagnosing the turbo as the cause was a reasonable thing to do as i saw the old one and it was definately fubar'd.

The garage had definately put oil in the car as i checked it when i first picked the car up.

Are comp tests a pain on the scooby boxer engine? as i changed the plugs my self and i know theres not a lot of room in there???

Thanks for the replys guys.......might be looking for a new lump soon......lol

Oh and now the missus has told me the cookers stopped working......one thing after another at the moment....... ive told her that cooking of food is not that important and we will just have to wait until the scoobys back on the road first.....................im sure she'll understand

[mikey2]

thing is, just because there is shaft play, doesnt mean the turbo isnt doing what it should be, it just means the shaft bearings are worn, the turbo seals are all internal at just stop the oil that lubricates it from leaking out.

Compression testing is only slightly more awkward than changing the plugs, bread and butter for any garage.

Which garage did you go to??

[Nick]

any update mate?
Hope you get it sorted soon

[kirk]

hello mate dont no if you have found your problem yet but i no how you fill i have the same prob,changed turbo and still doing it, so took engine out but before i did we noticed a plug was oily so we went in for that piston first and found out the rings where broke but so was the piston but to our serprise the bore was ok thank him up above lol. so dont give up all hope if you need any advice dont call me lol no only joking if i can help with any thing please ask kirk.

[jayfold]

update, car has stopped smoking as drastically as it was doing but is still smoking, left it sat for a couple of weeks and when i started it up it ran lumpy and we found a load of oil and crap on the bottom of plug 4, so put another plug in but and it ran better but started smoking a bit more, but still not as bad as the original problem. So ive found a new garage closer to home and its going in on friday for a compression test etc, not going to bother guessing any more just gonna find out whats up with it.

To make matters worse my misses focus just threw the crank pulley off, so no car at all now

[codeye]

i think it may be a ring to m8 or stem seal. hope you get it sorted tho

[kirk]

hello mate not to sure if you have booked it in with someone else but richard at amk gatwick is helping me with mine and ive got the same problem and mine is a broken piston,pm me and i will give you his number kirk

[felen]

Allways a pain to try get the problem located.
Spent a fortune on a Saxo that wouldn't idle once, OBD checked ok, compression was fine, sparks fine, ICV fine, coilpack fine, fuel line fine, exhaust system fine.. not even citreon dealership could find out, so eneded selling it for peanuts after spending loads on it.
Hopefully you'll get it sorted soon and get back to the fun of driving it.

[jayfold]

Update..

compression test was done and found to be zero on the fourth cylinder and about 100 on the other 3, test was only £30!

The garage rekon it would be more beneficial to drop a new lump in rather than spend time and money trying to save this one.

Does anyone think its worth spending more money on this engine or just get a new one

At least i can go for a sti lump.....

cheers guys

[asperformance]

?? we build/rebuild a lot of engines and generally speaking all that will be wrong with your motor will be a piston or two

personally i would strip and check exact damage and then make a descision from there............

[jayfold]

how many hours labour do you think to strip it down, and possibly put back together, i dont think the garage want this job as they have limited storage space...

[chris1977]

if i was you i would give stew @ TFS racing a call he is a top bloke and knows scoobies engines inside out and has just done Angers engine as well so worth a phone call to see what he thinks