Car Meets Banned

[Luke1000]

Mods - I looked for a similar thread but couldn't find one - feel free to delete if one exists.

So I came across this yesterday morning in my local section on the Beeb news website (I live in the West Mids). By the afternoon it had gone briefly viral on the site, and there's now a discussion over on PistonHeads about it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-30286466

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...%2E&mid=273978

As I'm in the area, I'm (kind of) affected. It's rare we'd go out to attend a meet, as we're normally busy / can't be arsed, but I often enjoyed briefly stopping by if I saw a meet in progress, to have a look and a quick chat.

It's a shame: a blanket ban on decent, law-abiding folk enjoying a hobby is a massive overreaction, and simply illustrates how over-stretched the police are if they've not been able to enforce common sense behaviour using existing legislation...

[Steve_PPP]

I saw this yesterday and had a read through the Pistonheads thread as well - its such a wide open rule that is open to interpretation at many levels.

At the moment it only applies to an area 'commonly known as the black country' - where does this geographical area start and end?

Is a cruise a meetup where vehicles are driving around showing off? Surely meeting up and parking somewhere isn't a cruise, its a meet/gathering?

And apparently it applies to two or more vehicles in convoy - which is just rediculous and hadn't been thought through.

Not particular concerned as I'm sure common sense will come into play at some level at least - I guess its just a local judge trying come up with some legislation that gives the Police more powers to act against muppets who cruise round shopping centre car parks doing burnouts etc.

[555_Si]

isn't a group of 5 or more people playing music considered a Rave, and hence illegal as well?

i understand while some laws need to be put in place to enable law and order, but i hope this is used wisely if rolled out across UK, as a lot of people just enjoy meeting up like ourselves and cause very little, if any, problems.

[Luke1000]

The actual wording doesn't seem to be available online yet, however the councils involved are Sandwell, Walsall, Dudley and Wolverhampton. If we only include the area between these councils' major town centres i.e. the place generally thought of as the Black Country, it's still huge, maybe 100sq mi.

ETA: if the area is extended to include the councils' full areas of responsibility, it's the entire western half of the West Mids conurbation. Probably 250-300sq mi at a rough guess. It's not a huge stretch to include these areas as being within the 'Black Country', particularly as far as a court is concerned I'd think.

The injunction is quite innovative apparently as it's not targeted at specific people, quote from my local paper:

'(the injunction is) against 'persons unknown' – and anyone suspected of breaching it would be in contempt of court, for which an adult can face up to two years in prison and a fine.'

Although it affects my life minimally, I really dislike the idea. I can accept that anti-social behaviour needs clamping down on, but the truth is most people at the meets are well behaved and just enjoy looking at cars and being in a bit of a community. It just needs policing properly, and surely this is easier when meets are planned in advance, maybe even with the cooperation of police and councils? This legislation could potentially criminalise anyone knocking about with a modified car 'you were in a convoy' regardless of whether you were or not. I suspect it'd be hard to disprove. Up to 2 years and / or a fine, not to mention a police record...

From my experience it's very rare to see low-life at these meets, most people work, pay taxes and are properly insured. Keeping it legal and endorsed means behaviour can be monitored and checks carried out much more effectively. At the same time there are hundreds of uninsured drivers on the roads in the area!

Meanwhile, just last month and adjacent to the area we have this, a completely different approach with some good results:

http://www.droitwichstandard.co.uk/2...ce-119185.html

[jmcc42uk]

This is ridiculous, so what happens if a group of grown up car enthusiasts meet up at a pub on a sunday afternoon. Is that illegal?

[Luke1000]

Originally Posted by jmcc42uk

This is ridiculous, so what happens if a group of grown up car enthusiasts meet up at a pub on a sunday afternoon. Is that illegal?

The injunction says that's fine until 1500. Then the conditions of the injunction apply, at least in theory. I'd think if you're being quiet and reasonable you'd have to be very unlucky to get nicked in this kind of situation. But we know that people can react badly to even the sight of a 'modified' car, all you'd need is an over-zealous resident and an over-zealous officer and suddenly you have a problem with the law. Here in the West Mids even the quiet enthusiast type are reconsidering how and when to hold their meets - and the potential for arrest when in convoy is going to become a worry.

[Ginola]

Need to find out who's idea the ban was then organise a giant blockade of modified cars!

[Luke1000]

What's really interesting is the fact that the judge granting this unique injunction (being against 'persons unknown' and dispensing with the need for personal service by the courts) had severe misgivings prior to issuing it. From a report on October 3rd:

'But His Honour Judge Owen said he had concerns about the level of power being sought with the injunction.
He said: "I'm concerned anyone standing at the side watching these races take place could be wrongly arrested and then things could get out of hand.
"I'm concerned that such a draconian order is required from the court."'

[Hongkongfooi]

if you think the police have the time and resources to enforce this then think again

[jmcc42uk]

Originally Posted by Hongkongfooi

if you think the police have the time and resources to enforce this then think again

According to the local news last night, Sussex police will not be attending some crimes now because of a shortage of resources.

We all know that breaking up a cruise is a lot more important than stopping thieving scum burgling your house

[Luke1000]

HK good to hear some insight, I did suspect as much, but I'm concerned that there could be an effect on people like ourselves doing something innocuous like a pub meet and a run in the area.

While I can see how residents have been affected by some deeply crappy behaviour, this is using the proverbial sledgehammer, and it smacks of an incursion on civil liberties. I'm also bothered by the thought that I could randomly meet another modded car on route home and face possible prosecution (I live in the middle of the injunction area).

JMCC, West Mids Police are (at least publicly) very much behind this idea, it was apparently drafted by them in partnership with the four councils:

http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/l...s.aspx?id=1875