Brake options

[T1NY.]

Hi guys, i dont post often on here but i do lurk often,

anyway, i have a question on brake options for my wrx bug

i wanna upgrade as i seem to get alot of brake fade when driving abit "spirited" so i'm considering a ksport 330mm 8pot kit, but i have also been given the option of a rts 330mm 6pot kit.

opinions please guys, same size brakes, does the 2 extra pots mean better braking or would it be more important with the size disc? i cant go any bigger as only running 17inch OZ alloys and from what i have read 330mm is biggest for 17inch

[BIG"E"]

Originally Posted by T1NY.

i wanna upgrade as i seem to get alot of brake fade when driving abit "spirited"

When you say brake fade what do you mean?
Soft pedal or hard pedal and just not stopping?

[Rdlangy1]

As per Ian - depends what u mean.

Brake fade is usually when brake fluid gets to hot or components get to hot and don’t work as efficiently.

If ur WRX - then STi brembos would be cheapest option and are fine for road applications.

If you are tracking then I run K-Sport 8 pots and they are great.

However pads also make a huge difference to breaking performance so if ur running standard pads maybe try some brembo or EBC pads before splashing out £££ on a big brake kit you might not necessarily need.

Fluid is also a cheap enough upgrade to one with a higher boiling point if u think that’s the issue..

Ryan

[SpecB]

Fast road you’d be fine with some uprated pads e.g DS25000s next level up I’d go for STI Brembos with again uprated pads, then you’re into aftermarket e.g K Sports with AP Racing Alcon as the next level after those.

Also don’t forget that calliper thickness is an issue as well as diameter, the STI Brembos are actually very bulky and foul many 17s

[Red Baron]

The only time my 4 pots have suffered is going round the ring, they didn't fade, they just juddered really bad (apparently this caused by gasses being released from the pad material at really high temperatures, these were cheap Godspeed Kevlar pads), admittedly the classic is a fair bit lighter than a New age. I'd try the cheaper fix first, fluid change and some good pads before spending a lot of money, you could put a set of braided hoses on as well, the good thing is that these should fit any updated calipers as well as your current set up, the Brembos are definitely the cheapest route to an upgrade providing your wheels clear them.

[BIG"E"]

Originally Posted by SpecB

Fast road you’d be fine with some uprated pads e.g DS25000s next level up I’d go for STI Brembos with again uprated pads, then you’re into aftermarket e.g K Sports with AP Racing Alcon as the next level after those.

Also don’t forget that calliper thickness is an issue as well as diameter, the STI Brembos are actually very bulky and foul many 17s

Agreed

Pads can be down to personal preference and driving styles after many years of driving I've found that Performance Friction Z rated pads are a very good all round pad. (not a lover of EBC) equally as important as the pads is the brake fluid, you only get what you pay for.

If I were you Id give Alyn a telephone call at

http://asperformance.com/

He will be able to give professional advice and also supply you what ever you want depending how deep your pockets are

[BIG"E"]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

The only time my 4 pots have suffered is going round the ring, they didn't fade, they just juddered really bad (apparently this caused by gasses being released from the pad material at really high temperatures, these were cheap Godspeed Kevlar pads), admittedly the classic is a fair bit lighter than a New age. I'd try the cheaper fix first, fluid change and some good pads before spending a lot of money, you could put a set of braided hoses on as well, the good thing is that these should fit any updated calipers as well as your current set up, the Brembos are definitely the cheapest route to an upgrade providing your wheels clear them.

[alfa male]

Originally Posted by Rdlangy1

If ur WRX - then STi brembos would be cheapest option and are fine for road applications.

If you are tracking then I run K-Sport 8 pots and they are great.

Ryan

Are the Brembos not any good for track then?

[Rdlangy1]

Originally Posted by alfa male

Are the Brembos not any good for track then?

Probably...with good pads they would be fine... depends how hard you stomp on the middle pedal I guess as to whether they give you the confidence you want...

[Steve_PPP]

There's probably not too much in it between a brembo setup and a ksport (or equivalent) 330mm setup. The brembo discs are 326mm so pretty much the same - then it all just comes down to disc and pad choices.

If you're tracking then its worth moving to 18" wheels to open up the larger brake kits imo

[T1NY.]

thanks for the replys,

as for the fade, the pedal feels the same, but the car just doesnt slow down quick enough, when i 1st got the car i actually got the brakes smoking from hard use around a/b roads at night(empty ones)

i spoke to a friend of mine about this today and he said he used to use this kit on his old scooby:
https://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/imp...onversion.html

anybody had experience with this?

they are designed to use the standard 4 pot,

also, can anybody recomend/link a decent pad/disc combo? been a slow month at work and could do without the extra cost if poss :P

[Steve_PPP]

The godspeed kit used to be a viable option a long time ago but doesn't really compare these days. £550 is a lot of cash when you have to reuse your existing calipers (potentially with tired seals/sticky pistons) and then you still have to split the caliper in half to fit the spacer. Not for me...

[Rdlangy1]

As per steve - not for me either.

Sounds like if ur Just not stopping you need decent pads.

Like Ian said, speak with alyn at AS Performance..

Def your cheapest option..

[T1NY.]

ok cheers, will look into that, what pads are good these days? not done any upgrades on brakes for a LONG time and used to be ebc where good

[Bigtel]

I’ve got the 8 pot K-Sports on now which are really good. I’m going to try putting Performance Friction pads in next though as I find the DS very dusty and take a long while to warm up.
Before these I just had the standard 4 pots with uprated discs and pads. Worked really well, never got any fade .... just a small fire at the ring when the rubbber seals melted!!

[T1NY.]

hahaha, that sounds fun, yeh i think im going to go disc/pad option for now

[ScoobyStu]

Steer clear of Godspeed, their stuff is s**t!

[Banstead Stig]

Originally Posted by ScoobyStu

Steer clear of Godspeed, their stuff is s**t!

I've rarely heard anything good said about them, especially recently.

Alyn is a top fellow and will sell you what you need, not what he has a surplus of, etc. in my experience. My discs and pads from him were spot on for the brief I provided. I could tell he'd bothered to listen to me and recommend stuff accordingly.

[BIG"E"]

Originally Posted by T1NY.

ok cheers, will look into that, what pads are good these days? not done any upgrades on brakes for a LONG time and used to be ebc where good

Performance Friction Z rated pads.

[Frenchie]

Stay well clear of Godspeed.

[boggissimo]

Originally Posted by alfa male

Are the Brembos not any good for track then?

I've got STI Brembos (all round) on my blob wagon, and have found them absolutely great on track, no fade or loss of performance that I could detect. I have the standard STI 17" wheels, which fit over Brembos (and also needed a space saver spare from an STI, the WRX one doesn't fit).

I haven't tried AP or any others so can't compare to them, but the Brembos are a massive improvement over the stock 4 pots.

[T1NY.]

just ordered some brembo fronts, thanks for the info guys,

also, standard sti discs are 326mm right? is 330mm disc too big or will it fit? was thinking surely 4mm couldnt be too tight?

[Steve_PPP]

Stick with 326mm standard size. 4mm doesn't sound much but if it rubs in the caliper then you'll be in trouble.... the caliper just bolts directly to the hub so you'll struggle to space the caliper out if the disc is too big.

If you're getting 2nd hand brembos, check all of the threads are good and bolts wind through the calipers smoothly before disassembling the current brakes on your car - they are known for stripping the threads.

[T1NY.]

yeh i have seen a few listings with them having stripped threads. i am buying them from a known big seller(the biggest as far as i can see) on scoobynet.com called Mattybr5@MB Developments and their feedback is flawless so hopefully they should be good, they are coming with low mileage uprated disc and pads so will do for a while till i get new ones(providing they have plenty of life left)

[SpecB]

Worth chasing the threads out before fitting - I did this with mine and use plenty of thread seal or copper ease to protect the threads

[555_Si]

I always use new bolts for mounting calliper when taking them off.

[georgehawkins27]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

The godspeed kit used to be a viable option a long time ago but doesn't really compare these days. £550 is a lot of cash when you have to reuse your existing calipers (potentially with tired seals/sticky pistons) and then you still have to split the caliper in half to fit the spacer. Not for me...

I burned my brakes out at Brands yesterday and now I've got major brake fade. Can't really live with it too long because it's my daily drive.

Speaking to Neil at Slowboy he suggested if I wanted to upgrade slightly that he would order in Godspeed stuff for me. I can see that there are some negative opinions on Godspeed, but I wanted to check if they would suit my case? I don't really have the cash lying around to splash out, but if the difference is only like an extra 500 I would rather future-proof my brakes and upgrade my current set up.

In the future I plan to upgrade the cars performance (currently standard WRX), so that's why I figured it might be worthwhile looking at brakes, considering they definitely need doing...

Suggestions greatly appreciated. Hoping to get it done this week still...

[Bolesroor]

Check out Mattybr5 as TINY has,he is always breaking scoobs and at reasonable prices imo

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by georgehawkins27

I burned my brakes out at Brands yesterday and now I've got major brake fade. Can't really live with it too long because it's my daily drive.

Speaking to Neil at Slowboy he suggested if I wanted to upgrade slightly that he would order in Godspeed stuff for me. I can see that there are some negative opinions on Godspeed, but I wanted to check if they would suit my case? I don't really have the cash lying around to splash out, but if the difference is only like an extra 500 I would rather future-proof my brakes and upgrade my current set up.

Sounds like you had fun at Brands

Depends what Neil is quoting for - Godspeed sell a range of discs/pads so it might just be a like-for-like swap if you've warped your current discs. When I was running the same brakes as you on track, I'd boil the brake fluid easily too so some fresh fluid/bleed was required - the fluid in the hoses nearest the caliper came out black! I'd make sure that is done if you get Neil to swap discs/pads.

In terms of that Godspeed kit for £550, I would avoid. Better off going down the brembo route as there's a better selection of disc/pad options available in the future. However... I think brembos may foul your 17" wheels.

If you don't want to swap the wheels, then I'd go for a 330mm 8pot ksport kit. But moving to 18" wheels options up a load of options. It really depends on your budget and how much more you intend to track the car in the future. In a nutshell, you'll likely run into the same problems on track even with upgraded discs/pads in your current calipers, as they just can't dissipate the heat generated on track with a heavy car like the newage scoobs. I tried quite a few options and threw good money after bad before deciding on the 8 pot ksport kit. With that, I've never had fade on track even with frequent 120mph+ stops.

[georgehawkins27]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

Sounds like you had fun at Brands

Depends what Neil is quoting for - Godspeed sell a range of discs/pads so it might just be a like-for-like swap if you've warped your current discs. When I was running the same brakes as you on track, I'd boil the brake fluid easily too so some fresh fluid/bleed was required - the fluid in the hoses nearest the caliper came out black! I'd make sure that is done if you get Neil to swap discs/pads.

In terms of that Godspeed kit for £550, I would avoid. Better off going down the brembo route as there's a better selection of disc/pad options available in the future. However... I think brembos may foul your 17" wheels.

If you don't want to swap the wheels, then I'd go for a 330mm 8pot ksport kit. But moving to 18" wheels options up a load of options. It really depends on your budget and how much more you intend to track the car in the future. In a nutshell, you'll likely run into the same problems on track even with upgraded discs/pads in your current calipers, as they just can't dissipate the heat generated on track with a heavy car like the newage scoobs. I tried quite a few options and threw good money after bad before deciding on the 8 pot ksport kit. With that, I've never had fade on track even with frequent 120mph+ stops.

I did have a great day!

I guess Neil is quoting for like-for-like, as I told him I'd like to upgrade from standard set-up. I thought my discs were warped when we initially discussed, so it was more of an immediate fix instead of a planned change. Following the track day I'm pretty happy with the brakes to be honest. At least for now.
But I'll be changing my brake fluid to something better hopefully ASAP.

I will speak to Neil again and see if he reckons the STI brembos would foul my 17's. I will investigate options if they will, as I want to swap to gold rims anyway, so could find something that works.
Do the 330mm 8pot Ksports fit in 17's??? I thought 330mm would be too big. If not, then probably that's what I should go for. I take it the main difference between the Brembo's and Ksport's is the price?

Most important lesson I think, is to do proper cool-down laps..

[georgehawkins27]

Originally Posted by Bolesroor

Check out Mattybr5 as TINY has,he is always breaking scoobs and at reasonable prices imo

I'm going to begin keeping my eye out! Thanks. I have joined scoobynet now

[Anger]

I still used my Brembo’s at 550bhp plus with the Performance Friction Big Brake kit

[BIG"E"]

Originally Posted by Anger

I still used my Brembo’s at 550bhp plus with the Performance Friction Big Brake kit

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by Anger

I still used my Brembo’s at 550bhp plus with the Performance Friction Big Brake kit

Best option for the brembos for sure, but they've gone up in price in recent years - google shows they're around the £800 mark just for the two piece PF discs now, I remember them being just under £500... Best i could find was http://www.scoobyparts.com/performan...nt-brake-discs
So it tends to push most people down the larger 356mm ksport from at a £1100 including pads and new calipers.

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by georgehawkins27

Do the 330mm 8pot Ksports fit in 17's??? I thought 330mm would be too big. If not, then probably that's what I should go for.

I couldn't say 100% but generally the 330mm ksport kit fits 17" wheels fine. The caliper is slimmer than the STI brembos so actually fits more easily - its not the disc size that causes the issues, its the chunky gold caliper with the brembos.

[SpecB]

I had AP racing 4 Pots on 330mm disks behind standard WRX wheels - that was a Godspeed kit but the only Godspeed part of it was the bracket and bells so it was AP Callipers, discs and Ferodo DS2500 pads that did the work!

[asperformance]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

Best option for the brembos for sure, but they've gone up in price in recent years - google shows they're around the £800 mark just for the two piece PF discs now, I remember them being just under £500... Best i could find was http://www.scoobyparts.com/performan...nt-brake-discs
So it tends to push most people down the larger 356mm ksport from at a £1100 including pads and new calipers.

as one of the very few official UK PFC distributors then think you'll find we have always done deals...............

[georgehawkins27]

Originally Posted by Anger

I still used my Brembo’s at 550bhp plus with the Performance Friction Big Brake kit

I take it you're running 18's?

Cheers for info!

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[georgehawkins27]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

I couldn't say 100% but generally the 330mm ksport kit fits 17" wheels fine. The caliper is slimmer than the STI brembos so actually fits more easily - its not the disc size that causes the issues, its the chunky gold caliper with the brembos.

I have started looking at these online. So are you running 8 pot on front, and 4 pot on rear? I'm assuming just changing front brakes isn't a good idea?

Thanks for all the info Steve! I do want to change my wheels at some stage too, but going for a setup that allows me to remain flexible on that helps! The gold brembo's look so good though...

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[Scott.T]

Brembos all round and DS2500 made a huge difference on my classic but it is 200kg lighter than a fatage/newage.

I had 4 pots then 330mm Cadsports then Brembo's and even the change from Cadsport to Brembo was significant (but included rears aswell at this stage).

I've tried Performance Friction pads but find in daily use they cool off too quick. The DS2500 give a better all round feel with less obvious transition.

[georgehawkins27]

Originally Posted by Scott.T

Brembos all round and DS2500 made a huge difference on my classic but it is 200kg lighter than a fatage/newage.

I had 4 pots then 330mm Cadsports then Brembo's and even the change from Cadsport to Brembo was significant (but included rears aswell at this stage).

I've tried Performance Friction pads but find in daily use they cool off too quick. The DS2500 give a better all round feel with less obvious transition.

I read DS2500 aren't road legal or something ? Or how do you keep them hot enough running in daily use?
I use the car for commuting etc (until I can afford a separate run-about), so trying to be cautious.

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by georgehawkins27

I read DS2500 aren't road legal or something ?

Not ever heard that and been running them for 12 years

[boggissimo]

I was changing my brake disks last night and have some pads too but didn't swap them yet (want to see what difference the disks make first). I noticed that on the box for the pads it says 'For racing use only' although that may just be because they haven't had some sort of official test/approval to be able to sell them for road use. The same sort of thing was on the box of my coilovers!

I expect the legalities are more basic in terms of whether your car has sufficient braking ability to be considered safe on the road, but don't know for sure.

[Steve_PPP]

DS2500 must be road legal, its got to be the most common Ferodo pad out there....

With regards to swapping rears as well, then its up to you and how hard you brake on track. I switched to 8pot 356mm ksports on the front with standard WRX 2 pot rears and it was a massive improvement, but the car was obviously much more nose heavy on track - it made trail braking into corners fun as the rear end went light

Now running brembo rears with decent discs/pads and it has balanced the car much better. But brembo rears on a WRX are a pain, as the handbrake/hub assembly is a different size. I've got the godspeed handbrake shoes in mine as an adaption, and my handbrake is useless when they get hot after coming off track.

[scotty]

Think i might invest in some discs and pads for the bus when i can afford that like in about 21 years haha .

[asperformance]

a lot of uprated / fast road pads don't fit within the max / min friction required by the "reg 90" approval that is "required" for road use.............

ds2500 has too high friction to match this

[SpecB]

How about this setup - not saying it will fit an impreza but since impreza brakes fit the legacy I can't see why not.
http://www.uklegacy.com/forums/index...big-brake-kit/

[T1NY.]

decided to buy rear brembos, braided lines and dot 5.1 and do it all in 1 go,

[stonejedi]

Originally Posted by T1NY.

decided to buy rear brembos, braided lines and dot 5.1 and do it all in 1 go,

Are you already running brembos at the front?.SJ.

[T1NY.]

nope, they are sat next to me at the moment, gonna fit it all at same time