Rolling Road day at Surrey Rolling Road 5th July 2014

[Banstead Stig]

:

Originally Posted by Wagon_Si

Yeah it has been remapped, decatted, milltek exhaust and has seen 276bhp on Charlies rollers when not running right before and 288bhp on other rollers, we think it has cams, but I have a set of cams here to go in it, which I will probably look at now, as I am going to replace the head with a ported and flowed one and get it remapped again.

i'm thinking maybe my maf is old, also going to check compression when I get time.

Ah, okay. Sounds like a good opportunity to do a bit more to it, just to make sure.

I'm quite interested in the R32. Been thinking about getting one!

[Ginola]

Glad you all had a good one, sorry once again I couldn't make it, really disappointed.. I will sort something sooner or later!

See you all soon.

[Rdlangy1]

Agreed! And figures were great considering it's only got a back box (that I know of!)

[scooby doo]

Lol glad you all had a good day, not so much for me ,left on route and the Datsun thought you know what will piss you off let's snap a cv joint lol!!!!


Upside been lent this lol

[Rdlangy1]

Ahhhh bad luck bud - but every cloud has a silver lining! Sweet evo

[Scott.T]

Twas a good day and nice to meet a few new peeps.
Most people went away happy and those that had issues at least found out.
They just need to find out why.
Better to be diagnosed 'not healthy' for £35 then suffer the consequences of an unknown/underlying issue.

[Lucky]

Great morning and good to see/meet everyone.

Really pleased with mine at 277 bhp considering it's totally standard and at least now I know it's running well and is a good base for further mods as I had no clue where it was power wise.

Thanks to Charlie and cj too

[Rdlangy1]

Did love ur scoob in black lucky... Don't think u can beat a black car

[EXEVO3]

Sounds like a great day.....good figures there....so who made the most ponys...?

[Steve_PPP]

Nice morning out even if I couldn't bring the scoob. Scoobydoo - wondered why you didn't show but a bust cv joint is a fair excuse

Was good to meet some more members too

[scooby doo]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

Nice morning out even if I couldn't bring the scoob. Scoobydoo - wondered why you didn't show but a bust cv joint is a fair excuse

Was good to meet some more members too

Yea gutted as she really needs a health check , managed to get a spare from a local guy (eBay) and swapped shaft over today, so evo back with with my bit and Datsun lives again lol,
100% on for next meet ,
So what's Charlie's place like now? Got to be better than the old place fact it has loos lol, and pics of the actuall place?

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by Rdlangy1

Did love ur scoob in black lucky... Don't think u can beat a black car

Thank you kind sir :

[Hongkongfooi]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

Twas a good day and nice to meet a few new peeps.
Most people went away happy and those that had issues at least found out.
They just need to find out why.
Better to be diagnosed 'not healthy' for £35 then suffer the consequences of an unknown/underlying issue.

any figures then scott?

[Scott.T]

319BHP for mine which is down from the 335BHP in 2009 and 330BHP it had 'while on loan' back in 2011.

However, boost on the rollers was dropping to 1.1bar and it holds 1.4/1.35 pretty much to redline on the road (I've had to lift the rev limit from 7100rpm to 7300rpm for that very reason, as I kept hitting it).
My bum-o-meter tells me it's better on the road then on paper

[scooby doo]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

319BHP for mine which is down from the 335BHP in 2009 and 330BHP it had 'while on loan' back in 2011.

However, boost on the rollers was dropping to 1.1bar and it holds 1.4/1.35 pretty much to redline on the road (I've had to lift the rev limit from 7100rpm to 7300rpm for that very reason, as I kept hitting it).
My bum-o-meter tells me it's better on the road then on paper

Could strapping it down more help Scott?

[555_Si]

Yeah my golf has lost 20 odd bhp since last visit, so is it the cars or the rollers? Jo's jag was spot on if it is standard, but it may be chipped we don't know.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by scooby doo

Could strapping it down more help Scott?

No idea mate, I'm not an expert on the in's/out's of rolling road setup.
But it's quite common for a road mapped car not to hit target boost on the rollers.
I think it's something to do with the loading. But as you say it could be down to strap tension.

It's also been know for some dyno mapped cars to then over-boost on the journey home, particularly on the motorway on 3/4's throttle.

My boost plot actually shows oscillation as it came on boost, so it was trying to hit target, but then gave up and ran slightly down on target.

In hindsight I probably should of sat in the car with Charlie (as I did back in 2009) and tweaked the boost duty to get it on target.....oh well maybe next time.

[C. J.]

Strapping down tight will reduce bhp . I strapped every one the same so nothing wrong there as some made more than they did before

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by C. J.

Strapping down tight will reduce bhp . I strapped every one the same so nothing wrong there as some made more than they did before

Not blaming anyone Chris, just one of those things I guess.
If I ever stick a bigger blower on the car I may road map it then spend an 1/2 hour or so with Charlie to get a 'figure'.

[C. J.]

The dyno just tells the story it's up to poeple to except it . It's given a figure but not always the one poeple want to see

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by C. J.

The dyno just tells the story it's up to poeple to except it . It's given a figure but not always the one poeple want to see

True, but I can see beyond the BHP figure.
Unfortunately some people can't (I'm not referring to anyone that was there BTW).

[scooby doo]

Great thing about dyno's forgetting numbers is the plot, being able to see what they are doing, helped me out loads with the old sti, I thought for ages that I had a leak but was down to more the previous mapper, jgm sorted that but it's allways worth getting them done like you guys saying good bases to start, and best place to go I SRR added bonus it's closest to us, but allways see cars that used Charlie's rollers

[Rdlangy1]

Slightly off topic here gents - now I know I have a nice base to start from, and over the next 6 months will progress down the slipperly slope of mods - when I have them all ready I obviously want to come back to Charlie and have it mapped, and re-run. Are JGM the most "used" mapper on here? Not trying to divide opinion or anything, and Im sure people have there own views, but wondered who I should be looking at for mapping, and which type - ECUtek?

Thanks

Ryan

[scooby doo]

You don't get much better than jgm mate,
Ease to deal with such a nice car, mapped most subaru's local to us, 1st time I used him he come straight to my door, done mapped annd transformed the car
Btw ask for pops and bangs you will want it trust me lol that kid inside you will say hell ya

[Rdlangy1]

pops and bangs ? pmsl !!! Is that anti lag or something?
And is that an ECUtek remap or one of the others? I see on his site he offers about 3-4 different make of map - with costs ranging dramatically! Any advise?

Ryan

[EXEVO3]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

319BHP for mine which is down from the 335BHP in 2009 and 330BHP it had 'while on loan' back in 2011.

However, boost on the rollers was dropping to 1.1bar and it holds 1.4/1.35 pretty much to redline on the road (I've had to lift the rev limit from 7100rpm to 7300rpm for that very reason, as I kept hitting it).
My bum-o-meter tells me it's better on the road then on paper

Still good numbers mate...and 1.4bar through the rev range is a fast classic..

[scooby doo]

Originally Posted by Rdlangy1

pops and bangs ? pmsl !!! Is that anti lag or something?
And is that an ECUtek remap or one of the others? I see on his site he offers about 3-4 different make of map - with costs ranging dramatically! Any advise?

Ryan

For yours ecutek map is spot on, pops and bangs on over run. Sounds like mild anti lag , loved it on my sti

[EXEVO3]

Originally Posted by Rdlangy1

pops and bangs ? pmsl !!! Is that anti lag or something?
And is that an ECUtek remap or one of the others? I see on his site he offers about 3-4 different make of map - with costs ranging dramatically! Any advise?

Ryan

JGM are also local to us bud....when I get my esl setup I will be useing jolly

[Ginola]

There are lots of mappers used by members on here all offering good a good service, for your newage car you could get it open source mapped and save on the cost of an ECUtek licence..

[C. J.]

Have seen open source & ecutek mapps done and think the extra for the licence fee is worth every penny ,with owners of cars done on open source being happy but then commenting once done on ecutek that the car drives smoother . As they say buy cheap buy twice .

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by C. J.

Have seen open source & ecutek mapps done and think the extra for the licence fee is worth every penny ,with owners of cars done on open source being happy but then commenting once done on ecutek that the car drives smoother . As they say buy cheap buy twice .

Sorry but thats placebo.
The different methods are just tools to edit parameters/tables.
Much like a document can have a paragraph editted in Microsoft Office or Open Office.
What you end up with is an editted document in the same format as the original regardless of application used.

[C. J.]

Disagree it's placebo cars have had smoother afr's for a start

[Rdlangy1]

As always I appreciate all the feedback and Info

[Ginola]

Why would the car drive any differently because of ECUtek software? The standard ecu is very capable, with 3d boost mapping and plenty of correction tables, surely there is not a need to flash the ecu with 3rd party software to map it properly..it is a choice surely?

Driving smoothly and properly being more down to how long is spent developing the individual map on the car?
You can't say that Andy Carr, Neil and Duncan etc don't do a smooth map because it's open source that would imply that Subaru where wrong with there ecu design and ECUtek did a better job?.. Just my two cents. Very happy with my open source map, plenty of track days done with it as well.

[Scott.T]

With the exception of carberry, racerom etc......which have been developed to add additional maps/pub talk features, the 'code' running in an ecutek map and open source map is still the subaru developed 'running code'.

If you were to take all the tuning maps from an ecutek flashed/licensed ecu and paste them into an open source tool then flash the same car/ecu they would perform identically and vica versa.

At the end of the day its just a look up table. The ecu contains many of these tables of different resolution that the 'running code' uses.The key is to get all of the tables 'mapped' accross to work with each other. Hence the term mapping. The tuner is not re-writting the running code.

Doing a byte by byte comparison on an ecutek map, open source map or even a prodrive map would confirm that they are based on standard ROM images with just the maps, limits and diagnostic trouble codes modified.

The reason for smother afr in you example is solely down to the accuracy of the map (not the tool used to define the parameters), the position of the lambda in the exhaust vortex, the airflow through and over the car and the age/speed of the afr probe being used.

[Scott.T]

If we were comparing OE ECU to Syvecs or whatever the latest ECU of the day is I would appreciate that one may be quicker/smoother/different to the other even with the same target boost, ignition timing and afr rules applied.

[Ginola]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

If we were comparing OE ECU to Syvecs or whatever the latest ECU of the day is I would appreciate that one may be quicker/smoother/different to the other even with the same target boost, ignition timing and afr rules applied.

Wouldn't mind a Syvecs for Christmas

[C. J.]

You could look at it another way . Why would the mappers who use EcuTek and charge more and earn no more than those that don't !
As for some of the reason some mappers don't use EcuTek ,that would because EcuTek won't give them a dealership .

[Scott.T]

Why do ecutek users use ecutek....because they get the backup of ecutek rather then have to learn about or correct an issue within the open sorce community.
Some open source mappers are not just mappers but very intelligent individuals with similar skill sets to ecutek staff.

I'm not saying one is better than the other and I don't give a stuff what monies end up in the mappers pocket. I'm more concerned how much money is left in the customers pocket.

You may dig at certain open source mappers but I have also interigated an ecutek'd ecu. It was 'custom' mapped for a 2.5 engine and turbo swap and mapped in 8 minutes !!!!! as the tool I have logs every reflash from 1999 to date.
The owner who left the car with them all day was relieved of £650.

[C. J.]

At least it didn't take 2 weeks to mapp!

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by C. J.

At least it didn't take 2 weeks to mapp!

Well if thats a dig and what I think. All I will say is do your research on 'A/F Learning #1 D' and answer how a rolling road tune in 8 minutes would deal with that..........I'll save you the trouble......you would never spot any major variation as a potential issue.

[Banstead Stig]

So, there you go Ryan. Nice and simple!

Right then, brakes and tyres next...

[Ginola]

Originally Posted by Banstead Stig

So, there you go Ryan. Nice and simple!

Right then, brakes and tyres next...

[C. J.]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

Well if thats a dig and what I think.

?

[Bytes]

Originally Posted by Banstead Stig

So, there you go Ryan. Nice and simple!

Right then, brakes and tyres next...

No need, mine made 447 on budget tyres

[EXEVO3]

Originally Posted by Bytes

No need, mine made 447 on budget tyres

Brave!! Lol

[Granby]

Originally Posted by C. J.

At least it didn't take 2 weeks to mapp!

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

Well if thats a dig and what I think. All I will say is do your research on 'A/F Learning #1 D' and answer how a rolling road tune in 8 minutes would deal with that..........I'll save you the trouble......you would never spot any major variation as a potential issue.

i would prefer a 2 week map to a 8 min map

[Rdlangy1]

Oh I'm so glad I asked....ha ha ha - didn't mean to ruffles peeps feathers - was mearly trying to get info....I appreciate everyone's opinion and thank you all for your views it's all good info to me....I respect everyone's individual skills and wouldn't knock anyone else...

Silver surfer - did lolly manage to email that YouTube vid?

C.j - thanks for your help on the day

Like I've said - was good to meet everyone that went

[turbotime]

Scott, good power and 15HP could just be heat soak, temperature being blown in the front (or lack of it compared to the road) and load differences on the rollers at that instance.

Was desperate to attend but was on Marks stag do.