Rolling road day 14th March 2009

Im picking Big e up and meeting Scott at the Elva for 8am & i think scooby wez. Then off dwn the A21, M25 then lost. Ha! Ha!

[Gonza]

Should be at PP for 9. If we miss you though for one reason or another we can meet you there. So don't wait around too long...

P.S. Are we completely full or could we squeeze one more in? My dad (DelBoy) is thinking of bringing his along... This time with the correct fuel!! lol

Matey, we probably won't leave until 20 past to half past 9 anyway.

[Gonza]

Top stuff... oooh I do love a convoy!!

Snap matey!

guys . Bring all your spare change please. I am having little collection for red nose day. . Many thanks

Will do old fruity!

[C. J.]

Originally Posted by worzel

Matey, we probably won't leave until 20 past to half past 9 anyway.

Were leaving at 9.15 as its not a race

[SUBARMAN]

Many thanks to CJ for organising this!! Looking forward to the figures.

I thought Scott's were excellent!

I got 311 bhp and 322 lb ft. As Bob Rawle predicted, figures were down on both compared with last week's mapping on the road (322/333). Charlie said the fuel and boost were spot on, but that the timing was "safe", so more to exploit there perhaps.....................

[majorscooby]

I was well chuffed today standard its only 224bhp and with Magnex cat back pipe, Bailey dump valve and a Green cotton panel filter i got 251.8bhp!!! GET IN THERE

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by majorscooby

I was well chuffed today standard its only 224bhp and with Magnex cat back pipe, Bailey dump valve and a Green cotton panel filter i got 251.8bhp!!! GET IN THERE

damn good result that was

somehow i managed to get 1 bhp less than last time, after decatting the uppipe and removing the resonator section in the exhaust was hoping for a little more but never mind eh catted downpipes gotta go i think

[majorscooby]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

damn good result that was

somehow i managed to get 1 bhp less than last time, after decatting the uppipe and removing the resonator section in the exhaust was hoping for a little more but never mind eh catted downpipes gotta go i think

Shame fella i was gutted for ya!!!!

[Steve_PPP]

photo time tried to get everyones scoob (i think i did) but apologies if i missed anyone.

[img]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/chipho/SRR%202009/Img_6694.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/chipho/SRR%202009/Img_6697.jpg[/img]

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[Steve_PPP]

And some formation parking!

[img]http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/chipho/SRR%202009/Image12.jpg[/img]

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A couple of things to say ,cheers CJ for organising the day,Cheers Worzel for taking me and Rob for your dohnut.
Quick vid on way up there.

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/th_14032009076.jpg[/img]

Nige and BigE

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009365.jpg[/img]

C.J
[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009366.jpg[/img]

C.J on the rollers - Best of the Day - About 400bhp

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009367.jpg[/img]

Keiths superb wagon ready to run

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009387.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009385.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009386.jpg[/img]

Keiths 1st run - Belive he made 311BHP - Nice one

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009389.jpg[/img]

The wagon squadrons top secret wind tunnell - Shhh

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009388.jpg[/img]

Scott's imaculate Classic ready to run

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009382.jpg[/img]

Scott wondering if his tweaks will do the biz

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009381-1.jpg[/img]

Great figures Scott

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009384.jpg[/img]

1st time on the rollers for Rich's great looking wagon

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009372.jpg[/img]

He looks worried - No need he made over 250BHP - Great for standard car

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009373.jpg[/img]

Nigel's nicely sorted sti - Love the FMIC

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009375.jpg[/img]

Worzels ready to run - Clean your engine young man

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009369.jpg[/img]

Great job with the banner Worzel

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009394.jpg[/img]

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More to follow

Its alive

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/rollingroad195.jpg[/img]

[RobEvo5]

Great pics - shame it was all a bit of a rush for me, and didn't really get chance to touch base with some of you and put faces to names. But good fun all the same, will have to come along to one of the summer meets have a proper natter....

Great pics lads!

The tripod in the air really worked well Steve, great idea.

And as for Rob's donut Priceless

Great day had by all.

[SUBARMAN]

Great pics from Steve and Martyn!! Aerial shots (on a stick) superb - banner superb - and the last pic of martyn - well -

[BIG"E"]

Good pictures boys,

Cheers CJ.


I did wonder who the pig was modeled on, now I know

While I remember it, many thanks to Scott today. Made me feel a lot better about my figures.

And like Nige, the boost does drop off at around 6000 in 3rd but holds it all the way to the redline in 4th - 5th - 6th, if he had done it 4th as we thought, it may have been slightly different But, hey ho. Still feels bloody good.

Going to take it to PE with Martyn when he gets his back on the road and see if it makes a difference. But as Scott says, it could be made to give good roller figures with minimal work that would actually give me no benefits anywhere else. So not really worth it.

Bring on the ring!


CJ

Many thanks fella for arranging the day, all went like clockwork. Well done

[BIG"E"]

THANK YOU

Nige for taking me.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by worzel

While I remember it, many thanks to Scott today. Made me feel a lot better about my figures.

And like Nige, the boost does drop off at around 6000 in 3rd but holds it all the way to the redline in 4th - 5th - 6th, if he had done it 4th as we thought, it may have been slightly different But, hey ho. Still feels bloody good.

Glad to help/advise, just a shame I can't adjust your map due to ECUTEK lockout. I can sort Nige's in less time then it takes to fire up the laptop but will probably leave it until the next mod/map or somewhere in Germany !!!!!

I think you have both come to the right conclusion i.e it holds boost well on the road (unlike the dyno), so just enjoy and forget the Dyno figure, just go with your road Dyno's.
They do have a tendancy to do this some times, and there are many a post on other forums where target boost on dyno is a fair bit less then on road.

Very pleased with my result today, last time was 305 and was hoping for similar or maybe 320 with the mods I have made (Silicon Induction as old OE one split, Apexi Power Intake and a touch leaner), so 335 was a real bonus. Just goes to show what a UK can do with some matched mods

Lastly thanks to Charlie at SRR and CJ for organising.

[Scooby Wez]

As this was my first trip out i had a really great day Nice to meet some of you at last.I was pleased with mine as it has 147k thought it would go bang but instead made 236.5 bhp/236.5 lb ft Quite happily i was told there is more there if i get the fueling sorted/re-map but it's nice and safe at the moment and i think i am going to leave it alone as it's quick enough for me Great photo's as well.

[Ratboy]

Great day,nice to see everyone and thanks to CJ...top man.
results 309.7 and 300lbs

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

Glad to help/advise, just a shame I can't adjust your map due to ECUTEK lockout. I can sort Nige's in less time then it takes to fire up the laptop but will probably leave it until the next mod/map or somewhere in Germany !!!!!

I think you have both come to the right conclusion i.e it holds boost well on the road (unlike the dyno), so just enjoy and forget the Dyno figure, just go with your road Dyno's.
They do have a tendancy to do this some times, and there are many a post on other forums where target boost on dyno is a fair bit less then on road.

Very pleased with my result today, last time was 305 and was hoping for similar or maybe 320 with the mods I have made (Silicon Induction as old OE one split, Apexi Power Intake and a touch leaner), so 335 was a real bonus. Just goes to show what a UK can do with some matched mods

Lastly thanks to Charlie at SRR and CJ for organising.

Your figures were cracking yesterday matey. I bet you are well chuffed.

Both yours and Keiths scoobs looked spot on Yesterday

[DukeBoy]

Well looks and sounds like everyone had a good day, well done C.J

Gutted i missed it, had the kids this weekend and they wouldn't of liked to be stood up there all day....oh well next time.

Love the banner, great job Worzel

Liking the pictures guys and the results

[DukeBoy]

Originally Posted by Crowman

The wagon squadrons top secret wind tunnell - Shhh

[img]http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo209/southeastscoobies/14032009388.jpg[/img]

Is that the original Wagon Wheel???

I didnt like this r&r day one little bit 321bhp my backside In fact my backside dyno tells me more like 360ish After having Cosworth's Previous Evo's & M3's my bum's a very good dyno thank you. Anyway moan over nice to meet some new face's thanks to C.J. for sorting it all out. BIG thanks to Scott for sorting my car.

Originally Posted by BIG E

THANK YOU

Nige for taking me.

NO PROBS MATE. ANYTIME.

[C. J.]

Thanks for the thank you comments but dont think i will bother again

[SUBARMAN]

Originally Posted by DukeBoy

Is that the original Wagon Wheel???

Lol Rich

It's not! But if it was made of chocolate, it might be...................

Originally Posted by C. J.

Thanks for the thank you comments but dont think i will bother again

Why not?

There was nothing wrong with the day you organised. Just because a couple of us aren't happy with the results (and yes I include myself in that ) it doesn't mean the day as a whole was not appreciated.

I was expecting my figures to be down but I know that the ones he gave are wrong. In hindsight, I wish I had asked him to do another run in 4th. I shall just have to take it to PE for a run.

If they come up with the same figures then I will just have to shut up and take it

But I doubt they will, even if we have to have an quick tinker to get the boost holding to the redline.

[C. J.]

Originally Posted by worzel

Why not?

There was nothing wrong with the day you organised. Just because a couple of us aren't happy with the results (and yes I include myself in that ) it doesn't mean the day as a whole was not appreciated.

I was expecting my figures to be down but I know that the ones he gave are wrong. In hindsight, I wish I had asked him to do another run in 4th. I shall just have to take it to PE for a run.

If they come up with the same figures then I will just have to shut up and take it

But I doubt they will, even if we have to have an quick tinker to get the boost holding to the redline.

asked about 4th for 6 speeds and it will not make any or a little differents ( 1 or 2 BHP/Lbs)
if you are that un happy I can arrange for you to go back and I'm sure he'll charge just £35
that way you will get a comparsion between your 4th and 3rd on the same rollers

Martyn is taking his to PE anyway, so I will just go there matey. They can also tweek the map to hold boost a bit longer if I wanted it.

Mate, none of this is a criticism of you. As I said, I still had a good day out. And most people walked away very happy so overall it was a well organised day.

[Scooby Wez]

Mate i had a great day my figures were down on what we thought but it was more of a health check for me,i now know i am running safe but could if i want to get more with a new map.As for PE i phoned them today and was told they are moving at the moment so no dyno for 8-12 weeks (so no mapping)

Cheers for the info Wez. Martyn may have to re-think then.

[DukeBoy]

So what were these low figures then?

[C. J.]

Originally Posted by worzel

Cheers for the info Wez. Martyn may have to re-think then.

can have it mapped at surrey !
just got off the phone to pat my mapper and he said that worzels in 4th would be even less at about 312 to 315 bhp !

[Scooby Wez]

Mine is a Ecutek did not think they could do it at Surrey ??? due to this license business.

[AP]

Originally Posted by Scooby Wez

Mine is a Ecutek did not think they could do it at Surrey ??? due to this license business.

Anything can be mapped at Surrey

[Scooby Wez]

Now i am

[AP]

Originally Posted by Nige

I didnt like this r&r day one little bit 321bhp my backside In fact my backside dyno tells me more like 360ish After having Cosworth's Previous Evo's & M3's my bum's a very good dyno thank you. Anyway moan over nice to meet some new face's thanks to C.J. for sorting it all out. BIG thanks to Scott for sorting my car.

I think you will find your figures just about spot on, Charlie is one of the most qualified RR operators in the business, he has loads of independent testers results in his portfolio..
If you are after pub figures take it to PE, you will come away happy

I think its irelievant what Steves made, its proven that certain settings for road dont seem to allow boost to hold whilst on the rollers.
I am sure if Pat,Bob or scott had an hour with Steves or Nigels car on the rollers they could make the necessary changes to acheive good numbers.
One thing i do know steves car is proper quick on the road, very strong.

CJ its about time you took me out in yours, must be mad, going by how good steves feels.
I not been out in a scoob over 350bhp yet!

[BIG"E"]

Originally Posted by C. J.

can have it mapped at surrey !
just got off the phone to pat my mapper and he said that worzels in 4th would be even less at about 312 to 315 bhp !

I am certainly no expert but i do have a modicum of common sense.

Something has to wrong here, Bob Rawl is a well respected and very experienced with mapping,
Scott is also experienced .

Bob and Scott surely cant both be wrong to the extent that the figures are indicating,
I know who my money is on.

My scoob when Ive been alongside or behind Worzels, has been equal to or marginally behind, and that was before its latest remap.
( cum to think of it though mines carrying more wieght).

On Saturday on the way to the RR whilst I was passenger with Nige his scoob felt quick!

So unfortunately that means judging by the results my WR1 must running about 285 BHP, or less fooking PRODRIVE.

There must be something wrong with the results!!!

[C. J.]

[quote=BIG E]

Originally Posted by "C. J.":1rrjhg6g

can have it mapped at surrey !
just got off the phone to pat my mapper and he said that worzels in 4th would be even less at about 312 to 315 bhp !

I am certainly no expert but i do have a modicum of common sense.

Something has to wrong here, Bob Rawl is a well respected and very experienced with mapping,
Scott is also experienced .

Bob and Scott surely cant both be wrong to the extent that the figures are indicating,
I know who my money is on.

My scoob when Ive been alongside or behind Worzels, has been equal to or marginally behind, and that was before its latest remap.
( cum to think of it though mines carrying more wieght).

On Saturday on the way to the RR whilst I was passenger with Nige his scoob felt quick!

So unfortunately that means judging by the results my WR1 must running about 285 BHP, or less fooking PRODRIVE.

There must be something wrong with the results!!![/quote:1rrjhg6g]
If you want to find out put the pooh cheap delta dash laptop thing on a car will on the rollers and see what the same run say !

[C. J.]

Originally Posted by Crowman

I think its irelievant what Steves made, its proven that certain settings for road dont seem to allow boost to hold whilst on the rollers.
I am sure if Pat,Bob or scott had an hour with Steves or Nigels car on the rollers they could make the necessary changes to acheive good numbers.
One thing i do know steves car is proper quick on the road, very strong.

CJ its about time you took me out in yours, must be mad, going by how good steves feels.
I not been out in a scoob over 350bhp yet!

you only have to ask .
May be a while as the box is getting changed and will have to wait for the DCCD control to be shipped from the states !
400bhp to the rear wheels for a while !

[simonairheadz]

nothing like a good old rolling road to stir up a bit of power debate............................................ ........
i myself know i have a large p3nis! so i dont feel the need to attend lol.

Originally Posted by C. J.

you only have to ask .
May be a while as the box is getting changed and will have to wait for the DCCD control to be shipped from the states !
400bhp to the rear wheels for a while !

That will be interesting through the rear wheels, dont go out in the wet

Whats the benifit on DCCD, i know sod all about them.

Originally Posted by simonairheadz

nothing like a good old rolling road to stir up a bit of power debate............................................ ........
i myself know i have a large p3nis! so i dont feel the need to attend lol.

[AP]

My delta dash results showed 300/310, the rollers on Saturday showed 280/260..
I trust the rollers myself after using them since day 1, hosting several RR events and seeing loads of cars mapped on them.
Ask GRD how well his cars produce figures on them, he is in the business where his customers would like the quoted figures for the work done.
As for quoting Bob, he has only ever used PE for his R&D.
These RR arguments have been going on for years..

[DukeBoy]

I my opinion if you want the pub talk figures, get it mapped on the rollers instead of the road

If you feel that it drives/pulls well does it really matter what the figures are???

[C. J.]

Originally Posted by Crowman

Whats the benifit on DCCD, i know sod all about them.

You can a just how much power you split from front to back
On the aftermarket control i have you can do 100% rear or front or anything inbetween if i have understood correct !

[Scott.T]

Just to put things straight,
There is nothing wrong with the results achieved for both Nige's and Worzels car on the rollers and no-one is at fault (mapper or RR operator).
For the boost they achieved at the top end of the rpm range, the power is about right.
My car was actually 0.1-0.2bar higher then their's hence I was marginally ahead on power.

Don't just look at the power figure plot, look at all the others that Charlies supplied, they all tell a story.....
Neither car made the boost on the rollers that they do on the road, regardless of gear.
If the car was hitting the top limit of the WGDC (Max Waste Gate Duty cycle) it wouldn't make much difference which gear it was in).
Normally a car will achieve slightly higher boost in the higher gears, hence more power. But the ECU in these cars has 2 WGDC maps to help maintain a more even boost per gear with a degree of self-learning. However, too much WGDC and you get boost spikes/oscillation in 5th/6th which can lead to lean mixture/detonation etc.....it's a fine balance.

Both cars hold 1.4bar out on the road so will be getting v.close to the expected figures of 340-350BHP for Worzel and 360-370BHP for Nige.

Retrospectivley looking a Nige's log we took when Road dyno'd he was hitting 35% WGDC for 1.45bar, Initial WGDC was 33, top limit was 38%.
On the rollers it may of been hitting 38% due to the different load effect of the rollers. It will not go beyond 38%, hence boost levels may not hit target.

All this is my take on the situation, and I am investigating further........

[Scooby Wez]

Originally Posted by DukeBoy

I my opinion if you want the pub talk figures, get it mapped on the rollers instead of the road

If you feel that it drives/pulls well does it really matter what the figures are???

As i have said i went to have a check up.From what my car has had done 260 was the rough guide Charlie also expected this when it came out @ 236bhp i was not unhappy.All the mod's i have done have made the car feel a whole lot better on the road.If i had come away with standard Subaru figures i would of been happy also as i think this would of been a good result as mine has 147k on it.When i set one of my bikes up on the Dyno i have always used for it it rode like s**t but was doing good bhp,i reset it back up for the road which made it feel great again but lost 7bhp on the dyno so i think a lot is swings and roundabouts.I am still talking about saturday and my brother is getting bored of the video

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

Just to put things straight,
There is nothing wrong with the results achieved for both Nige's and Worzels car on the rollers and no-one is at fault (mapper or RR operator).
For the boost they achieved at the top end of the rpm range, the power is about right.
My car was actually 0.1-0.2bar higher then their's hence I was marginally ahead on power.

Don't just look at the power figure plot, look at all the others that Charlies supplied, they all tell a story.....
Neither car made the boost on the rollers that they do on the road, regardless of gear.
If the car was hitting the top limit of the WGDC (Max Waste Gate Duty cycle) it wouldn't make much difference which gear it was in).
Normally a car will achieve slightly higher boost in the higher gears, hence more power. But the ECU in these cars has 2 WGDC maps to help maintain a more even boost per gear with a degree of self-learning. However, too much WGDC and you get boost spikes/oscillation in 5th/6th which can lead to lean mixture/detonation etc.....it's a fine balance.

Both cars hold 1.4bar out on the road so will be getting v.close to the expected figures of 340-350BHP for Worzel and 360-370BHP for Nige.

Retrospectivley looking a Nige's log we took when Road dyno'd he was hitting 35% WGDC for 1.45bar, Initial WGDC was 33, top limit was 38%.
On the rollers it may of been hitting 38% due to the different load effect of the rollers. It will not go beyond 38%, hence boost levels may not hit target.

All this is my take on the situation, and I am investigating further........

Thanks Scott, that explains things beautifully.

I know the figures I got are not reflective of how the car feels. I know for a fact that the scoob feels so much more pokey than my completely unmolested M3, which should be 343BHP & 360nm. I drive the M3 every day and the scoob wets all over it. I know that the M3 is heavier, but even so the difference is massive. My scoob was beating M3's on the old map let alone this new one. (tore one to shreds last year on the East Peckham by pass, much to the other guys disgust )

As said in a couple of posts in this thread, it's how it feels. The good old "Bum in seat" dyno doesn't usually get it wrong.

In fairness, anyone who saw Nige having a play with CJ on the M25 on the way to the meet, would say that there is never in a million years 80bhp difference between the two cars. Blast for blast (nothing silly for any watching fuzz ) was completely even.

I have no doubts about Chris's figures, his car was mapped on those rollers so it should be showing good returns on them. I just know that Niges and my own just don't seem right at all.

As AP said above, the debates will always happen. And will no doubt rumble on. But nothing takes away from the fact we had a great day out. We got to watch Rob donut around the car park, Martyn wore a pigs head and Chocks Chockington had his first tentative try at "formation Parking"! Happy days.

Group hug anyone?

[Scooby Wez]

Originally Posted by worzel

As AP said above, the debates will always happen. And will no doubt rumble on. But nothing takes away from the fact we had a great day out. We got to watch Rob donut around the car park, Martyn wore a pigs head and Chocks Chockington had his first tentative try at "formation Parking"! Happy days.

Group hug anyone?

Yep the formation parking was fun my first time also and it was a great day out.As for donuts my old Capri would have shown that m3 how to do it properly Bodie and Doyle style

I reckon if CJ's scoob wasn't there, he might have done a few more!

All this talk of figures and the like! Piffle and balderdash what what!

The fact it was run by a man with a BMW makes me think that this is just another of the fiendish Huns plots, to undermine our good old boys morale.

I think we have lost a bit of the blitz spirit down to this fiendish and dare I say scurrelous and underhand double agents tactics. I've a good mind to scurry round to the fellow and biff him on the nose what what! But I would not bring my name or that of the TMT into question, just to slake this Huns thirst for angst among fellow SES Members.

For Queen and St George! Hurrah! What what!!

[SUBARMAN]

Hi Chocks.

Now you can see why Ken Cobalt is needed as "secret spy" and has no time for the Squadron!!

Indeed I can SIR!

Ken Cobalts secret and furtive methods are obviously needed out there in this big bad Hun filled world what what.

Ken, where ever you are, be careful out there SIR! I fear that the hun fiends have something very underhand afoot. May your aim be sure if required and may you ginger beer stay frothy always.

Hurrah for Ken! HURRAH!!! What what.

[simonairheadz]

gotta say ive been on track many times and had my ass whupped by a well set up golf at brands!also giving it to a 430 at silverstone!
the bhp debate becomes worthless in the end!
how fast your car goes depends on how hard you push that foot!
you can chase your tail with cars and money,at the end of the day its how it feels and drives!
done 2 rolling roads in my life,found them both boring lol,but i do love to sit back and watch the debates lol!

Totally!

Originally Posted by AP

I think you will find your figures just about spot on, Charlie is one of the most qualified RR operators in the business, he has loads of independent testers results in his portfolio..
If you are after pub figures take it to PE, you will come away happy

I have no idea of R&R and im sure Charlie knows his job.My car did go to PE 3years ago & made 278bhp. I was dissapointed then as my car is a T.S.L 333. I dont understand why my car only made 320bhp on Surrey R&R and yes im disapointed. However if my car can sit with Scotts proven 335bhp on the R&R & my car two up + being a heavy new age ! why is that he should of left me if i was only 320bhp{straight line} C.J we had a little play on the way there in a straight line im sure you will agree there was hardly 80bhp difference. What im trying to say is I DONT GET IT thats all. If my car feels quick on the road why didnt it show that on the R&R? C.j these R&R are your bag please dont stop just beacause a few of us cant get our head around these figures. I am still learning as far as this mapping & chipping thing goes and would at some point like to go back to Surrey R&R .

Originally Posted by simonairheadz

gotta say ive been on track many times and had my ass whupped by a well set up golf at brands!also giving it to a 430 at silverstone!
the bhp debate becomes worthless in the end!
how fast your car goes depends on how hard you push that foot!
you can chase your tail with cars and money,at the end of the day its how it feels and drives!
done 2 rolling roads in my life,found them both boring lol,but i do love to sit back and watch the debates lol!

I agree mate i had my arse kicked by a 1968 mini van at the ring + allot of other stuff that should not have passed a Scoob.

[C. J.]

Had a call from charlie regarding dohuts !

Do it again and we are not welcome back .

[BIG"E"]

Originally Posted by Nige

I agree mate i had my arse kicked by a 1968 mini van at the ring + allot of other stuff that should not have passed a Scoob.

Your keeping quite about the Reliant Robin then Nige.

[img]http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u321/Bikebloke0/subaru030.jpg[/img] [img]http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u321/Bikebloke0/subaru031.jpg[/img] Ha! Ha!

[Scooby Si]

Originally Posted by C. J.

Had a call from charlie regarding dohuts !

Do it again and we are not welcome back .

I was waiting for that... Charlie has had a lot of grief from his landlords over similar things in the past!!

[simonairheadz]

ok ok so who was doing the spins?

It might have been Rob

It was only one in fairness, a bloody good one though!

Originally Posted by BIG E

Your keeping quite about the Reliant Robin then Nige.

Shhh that was a quick three wheeler

[Scooby Wez]

Originally Posted by Nige

Shhh that was a quick three wheeler

Did not handle well but v.quick
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/RdoH4DwDb8I/AAAAAAAADYQ/uXpZhHGw3zg/s1600/Carscoop_whattadrag_2.jpg[/img]

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by C. J.

Had a call from charlie regarding dohuts !

Do it again and we are not welcome back .

Wasn't one of ours...well it wasn't a Subaru...must of been one of those 2WD hangers on

[RobEvo5]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

Wasn't one of ours...well it wasn't a Subaru...must of been one of those 2WD hangers on

About time you learnt to drive a proper drivers car aint it Scott

Donut what donut that was a just a slight wheel spin infaction and delibrately so. In the right place, right time I feel a proper 3x360 coming.

All this talk of power and dyno results always makes me laugh. My car dynoed at just 276BHP, 226bhp at wheels - or 185bhp per tonne if you prefer which is what I like to measure things in these days. (Dynoed at superchips at 311bhp). And in truth through the rear wheels its as much power as you could ever need on UK roads. Driven in anger, my bottle will give way long before the cars performance would give up.

On the way home scott, I and a TVR cebera had a little play to a *** figured number and all 3 were fairly evenly matched and could hardly say one was significantly pulling on the other. You need serious BHP jumps to make another high powered car make it look like its standing still. 50-100bhp between cars factoring weight, drive train losses and gearing its all down to how much the driver has the right gear at the right time and how he pushes it to the red line.

Down a 'A' road my M3 would cover ground very quickly as well, but you would have to work much, much harder at it, and really use the throttle (rather than let a turbo pull you), gears, power band, and think about how fast you enter a corner and exit a corner, but as a result the driver enjoyment is that much more for me. But against that you don't get the kick in the back you get with a scoob so horses for courses.

But my main point is - Quick is often quick enough, and chasing BHP is nothing more than a v.expensive hobby for pub talk, and when you do get a BHP hike, within a week you get used to it. But in the meantime its just cost you £0000's, hours working on the car, and mullered knuckles.

Oh the things we petrol heads do with our hard earned and time !

[SUBARMAN]

That's a great summary Rob!!

[simonairheadz]

here here,i know loads of people on my other site running up to 1200 bhp in street cars,most of them only ever pootle along,mostly frightened of them cutting loose!or blowing up!
i thought about it................................................ .and have now decided not too.
my 270 bhp is plenty(as you say,driven in anger its very fast)
holidays,family entertainment take preference in money terms for me lol.
but as i said watching grown ups debate bhp,is like watching kids pee up a wall lol,who can go the highest!(but that never means he has the biggest ****)amen

i just sit quietly in the pub, when the bhp conversations start,i nick off and play pool lol

Mmmmm M3 drivers car yes they are and very nice to. Now put that same driver in to a Scoob with the same power. At the end of the A or B road who would be first? Hard question to answer that one both good cars. Bring on the RING. Pleny of M3's there to play with. The later M3's are fantastic i really wanted Worzel to bring his they look at there best when sideways.

[RobEvo5]

Have owned many a scoob and several M3's as most know. They are like chalk and cheese, but down the same 'A' road I would admit, the scoob would have it, but that's because of my lack of driver skill and bottle not the car. But in the right hands It would be a very close race IMO. But hyperthetically speaking I would have got a much greater adrenalin rush from the M3, because I would feel like I had been driving right on the limit of traction/handling and probably some sideways action along the way. Where as the scoob would do it with much more ease.!

Interestingly I firmly believe in the same hypotetical race, a non modded UK scoob with just 225bhp and its tiny TD04, would be just as quick point to point as a laggy higher powered scoob down a twisty 'A' road. The spool on a standard TD04 UK scoob is such a joy.!

I could be proved wrong but the ring is a track that really lends itself to cars that can really punch it above 100mph. Its a very,very fast track and the M3's come into there own at silly speeds. My car is delimited and has run 165mph on a superchips dyno, and a delimited E46 M3 can push 180MPH as proved by a mate of mine down an airstrip.

Unfortunately I can't make the ring as I'm off to le-man around that time. But my advice would be careful how you go, I'm sure you have all seen the you tube footage and I have done many a lap on the Xbox. Its a very,very fast track with little run off and not much kitty litter. If you slide it, you will crash and you will likely write off your car and possibly yourself. -

[RobEvo5]

Worzel you need to punish that M3 of yours a bit more and don't get fooled by the perception of speed/power that torque can give . Keep the revs above 5k on a E46 and keep it in the right gear and they are phenominal IMO. My E36 M3 is quick but a E46 M3 is defo quicker, and has far more driver aids to keep you on the straight and narrow.

I have no traction control, stability control or antiskid. Just good old ABS and thats it.!

[SUBARMAN]

Interesting point about the TD04! The biggest joy after my recent remap was that the boost now comes in at just above 3k rather than at 3.4k. May not seem like much but reminds me much more of my old TD04. The rest of the power improvement is above 5k and I am going way too fast by then to have the opportunity to enjoy it every day.

[RobEvo5]

Originally Posted by SUBARMAN

Interesting point about the TD04! The biggest joy after my recent remap was that the boost now comes in at just above 3k rather than at 3.4k. May not seem like much but reminds me much more of my old TD04. The rest of the power improvement is above 5k and I am going way too fast by then to have the opportunity to enjoy it every day.

Cosworth realised this along time ago, when they released the escort cosworth with 2 turbo variants and the 'Upgrade' variant at the time had a smaller turbo to help spool and road driving drivability. Scott being a complete ex-nutter RS fan in his day probably has an artical about it somewhere.

Even Audi and BMW seem to be spending massive amounts on development to avoid the dreaded lag and opting largely for cubic capacity. And even the 335 BMW has a twin turbo set up to keep it spooling very low in the rev range.

For me, the best scoob or any turbo car for that matter I have ever had or likely to have in terms of real world driver fun and power was my classic with a 2.5ltr and 20g turbo, with top mount, running circa 380/380. It had a great balance of power, torque, agility, & turbo spool. Most of us private punters plowing loads of dosh into our modded scoobs realised this along time ago. And subaru finally followed suit with the hawkeye 2.5STI. Today you can go buy a Hawkeye STI for circa 12K, remap it to 380/380 and job done, and a very nice car taboo.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by RobEvo5

Today you can go buy a Hawkeye STI for circa 12K, remap it to 380/380 and job done, and a very nice car taboo.

Well go on then..the beemer must of run out of fuel by now.....time for a change then.

[SUBARMAN]

Excellent!!!!

[RobEvo5]

Tempting but I currenty have my eyes set on a Honda S2000 or a more extreme S2 elise with turbo technics conversion, or a E46 M3. But who knows.... The M3 is doing its job very nicely at the moment, and I'm only really looking to change for the sake of change again.

Which reminds me I must think about another advert in here's classified for a nice M3 cab.

[SUBARMAN]

How many eyes have you got Rob - that's three cars at once!!! Buy in bulk or "a job lot"?

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by RobEvo5

Tempting but I currenty have my eyes set on a Honda S2000 or a more extreme S2 elise with turbo technics conversion, or a E46 M3. But who knows.... The M3 is doing its job very nicely at the moment, and I'm only really looking to change for the sake of change again.

Which reminds me I must think about another advert in here's classified for a nice M3 cab.

Get yourself a real car instead of WAG's wheels....