2 men from west Sussex jailed for speeding

[Guy B]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...at-140mph.html

First car - nissan skyline
Second - ???? Are you sure ????

That Primera must have been on the ragged edge to say the very least

They both got what they deserved to be honest.

[Guy B]

I think if the road had been empty they would have escaped jail, I dont have a problem with people speeding when the only person they can kill is themselves.

Originally Posted by Guy B

I think if the road had been empty they would have escaped jail, I dont have a problem with people speeding when the only person they can kill is themselves.

Agreed 100%.

The only time I have ever fully opened the taps has been on an empty road (an M road and in the middle lane) or an autobahn.

[Spooky]

Originally Posted by Guy B

I think if the road had been empty they would have escaped jail, I dont have a problem with people speeding when the only person they can kill is themselves.

Well put guy... +1.

Primera sallon though... really!?

[DukeBoy]

Originally Posted by worzel

(an M road and in the middle lane)

Isn't that the only lane on an M road then??? Think 99% of drives think so anyway!!!

Originally Posted by DukeBoy

Isn't that the only lane on an M road then??? Think 99% of drives think so anyway!!!

Especially in the M3. I only once opened the taps fully on that, 1.30am, empty motorway, sat in the middle of a straight section, flat out....


........ I nearly reached 70

[asperformance]

Primera has the same basic block as the GTiR, have seen a few conversions utilizing these................

[Moley_WRX]

Shame they owned the cars.... if they'd have nicked them and done that the judge would have given them a slap on the wrists and a £100 fine

[scooberblue]

i have owned a 97 primera GT and there 150 bhp as standard and do go quite well but struggle to do more than 130 but the amount of tuneing bits you can get for them now is amazing an i can quite easly believe it was doing 140 but on a road with other road users there luckly thay didnt get longer in jail

[AndyWRX]

My other half owns a primera GT not a bad car and not the quickest but it does handle though, still nothing on a scoob lol

[scoobycoops]

Jail is a bit harsh though! Not very bright I'll agree, but No one was actually hurt.....
Are we going to start getting points because our cars have the potential for going fast whether we do or not??
I have thoughts about the dirty things I could do to some girls I see in short skirts. Should I be imprisoned for rape "just in case" ??
How come murderers are getting 2 years? Pedos getting 18 months? Speeders get 6 months! The punishment must be commensurate to the crime not the potential of the crime.

[baser999]

Originally Posted by scoobycoops

The punishment must be commensurate to the crime not the potential of the crime.

Quite agree but then you get the system failing everyone - in yesterdays Telegraph it was reported that a 66yr-old father of two was killed when his car was hit by one being driven by a 22yr old racing his 20yr old mate at 90mph. They both admitted causing death by careless driving. Wft was careless about it? "Sorry, didn't see the speedo as I was racing me mate and eating a maccyd/texting me bird at the time...."
The 'killer' got. . . . .12 months, yep thats right 12 months and it was suspended for 18 months. His mate got a 43 week sentence also suspended for 18 months. They were also banned for 3 years.
Something sadly wrong here

[RobEvo5]

Time and place - And swerving in and out of traffic at silly speeds is not the time and place..... Its just wreckless and example has been made.

If can't do the time don't do the crime!

[scoobycoops]

Robevo - I couldn't agree more but the crime should befit the punishment and Baser has the exact example of the problem. The punishment is supposed to be the deterant and when people actually DO kill people, and get away with it with a ridiculously poor sentence, why wouldn't people go swerving around at 140mph?
I think we all have valid points.
What's good for the goose, etc. Double standards and inconsistency is the problem. The human condition and objectivity doesn't transmit. We all live in out own little bubbles.
But to me, killing someone is really really wrong.
Driving like a cock is wrong. But it isn't killing someone wrong.

[gtiteen]

Unfortunately by driving like a cock you're hugely increasing the risk of killing someone. I think from reading it, it was as much the guys attitude that got him the jail sentence as the offence. It's hugely hypocritical to bang on about driving fast, we all own quick cars! But as seems to be reiterated frequently there's a time and a place. However saying that if you get caught you get caught!

(just thinking how amusing it would be if I got the 3 points now!!!!!!!.... see my speed camera thread lol)

[scoobycoops]

Originally Posted by gtiteen

Unfortunately by driving like a cock you're hugely increasing the risk of killing someone. I think from reading it, it was as much the guys attitude that got him the jail sentence.

(just thinking how amusing it would be if I got the 3 points now!!!!!!!.... see my speed camera thread lol)

Agreed. But it isn't actually "killing" someone. No one died. Killing someone should have a universal across the board upper and lower punishment lesser than driving like a cock and not actually killing someone.
If you don't give a cr@p and your attitude shows it, sure the judge should give you the upper limit for not actually but possibly killing someone. However, saying you're sorry and being repentant shouldn't get you off.
How are you/we all going to feel if you get a 1 week ban and a 3 month jail term for a speeding camera??
Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning a 3 minute chase at 140mph swerving through traffic in the slightest. But if they are going to get that, pedos and murderers should get a proportionate punishment yes? You can't have one rule for pedos and a greater rule for speeders! Baser hit it on the head - the system is f'ked!
I think they should bring back corporal punishment now that DNA evidence is 100%.
Let's get that in the mix.

[Moley_WRX]

Originally Posted by baser999

Quite agree but then you get the system failing everyone - in yesterdays Telegraph it was reported that a 66yr-old father of two was killed when his car was hit by one being driven by a 22yr old racing his 20yr old mate at 90mph. They both admitted causing death by careless driving. Wft was careless about it? "Sorry, didn't see the speedo as I was racing me mate and eating a maccyd/texting me bird at the time...."
The 'killer' got. . . . .12 months, yep thats right 12 months and it was suspended for 18 months. His mate got a 43 week sentence also suspended for 18 months. They were also banned for 3 years.
Something sadly wrong here

Did you watch Coppers on Channel 4 on Monday (really good programme)

A bloke hit a woman from behind and killed her, and was charged with causing death by careless driving (less than dangerous driving i guess)

He got 300 hours community service and an 18 month ban. Disgusting.

[RobEvo5]

Coops - I take your point about punishment should be commensurate to the crime, and the justice system does appear to be inconsistent and often unfair.

But just because they didn't kill someone, it was very possible that if it were not for the intervention of the police that they would have gone on to do so. And by the sounds of it they were cocks with an attitude so had little regard for anyone other than themselves at the time, and wouldnt be suprised if they were equally balshy to the justice system showing little recourse for there actions.... Which is probably why they got 6 months but will be out in 2 weeks.

Its also a bit like saying and using the analagy, of a rapist stalking a women and given chase with a clear intention, but the wowen gets away. Just because he didn't actually technically comit the crime does that mean he should not do a stretch. !

Also If the culprits had shown understanding and recognition for there actions the law might have been a little more lenient. They must have weighed everything up, done a buit of a character profile on them and thought they will do this again, if they don't come down hard on them.

[scooby999]

I think the problem is most of us have driven like a cock at some point in our lives but I do think the punishment is way too harsh for the crime.
Did the police have to sit behind them for long enough to reach those speeds or could they have pulled them at 80mph?

[simonairheadz]

the skyline owner was from east grinstead and blarted around here like an absolute cock!
had been cut up/shocked by his driving (THRU TOWN 20 MPH LIMIT)
the bike following him witnessed them swerving in and out of cars and seriously cutting up cars on the roundabouts!
it was probably only luck that stopped him having an accident!
maybe now he will think about his actions.
supposed to be selling his skyline!(lets hope he gets something with very soft seats,as a spell in prison might not aggree with his sexual tastes lol)

scooby999: it took the biker a mile+ to catch up!!!!!!and that was on a bike

There's probably multiple reasons as to why the punishment is what it is in this case.

The obvious one's being the speed, conditions and surroundings. What probably didn't help was the fact that these two individuals were racing and had the wrong attitude following the incident.

Unfortunately we do not know all the facts and therefore we are unable to comment on the punishment in relation to the crime, there may have been numerous totting up of offences whilst the pursuit was taking place! We only know of the weaving in and out of traffic, we do not know what effect these actions had on other motorists or how many near misses there could have been.

[simonairheadz]

lets face it anyone weaving in and out of TRAFFIC racing each other at 145 mph in a 60 zone deserves locking up!
if you cant see that then your crazy!
regardless of what punishments other crimes get!

[Moley_WRX]

Originally Posted by simonairheadz

lets face it anyone weaving in and out of TRAFFIC racing each other at 145 mph in a 60 zone deserves locking up!
if you cant see that then your crazy!
regardless of what punishments other crimes get!

Very true

[gtiteen]

Originally Posted by simonairheadz

lets face it anyone weaving in and out of TRAFFIC racing each other at 145 mph in a 60 zone deserves locking up!
if you cant see that then your crazy!
regardless of what punishments other crimes get!

Agreed as well.

[scoobycoops]

Originally Posted by RobEvo5

Its also a bit like saying and using the analagy, of a rapist stalking a women and given chase with a clear intention, but the wowen gets away. Just because he didn't actually technically comit the crime does that mean he should not do a stretch. !

Rob,
Common sense and the layman would have to agree with your analogy, if I understand it. However, criminal law requires both elements of "Actus Rea" and "Mens Rea" (which are effectively Mens rea = guilty mind (intent) and Actus Reus = guilty act). The rapist cannot actually be convicted of intent without committing the actually crime. And it would be impossible to convict on Mens rea alone.
However, this thread is a traffic offence which is different to criminal law (and I shouldn't have tried to compare it with criminal law) and many would argue that many traffic law and convictions are actually deformations of the Law, to wit, the punishments not commensurate with the crime in comparison to other crimes under criminal law.

I would suspect that Admin's comments:
"...we do not know all the facts and therefore we are unable to comment on the punishment in relation to the crime.. etc" are spot on.
(They may have only continued to race in an attempt to escape the cops - ? which is worse.)
But I have to reiterate that no one was actually killed dead or injured.
Therefore, the conviction and sentence, if based on an assumption that they would have killed someone if not stopped, is not a fair conviction. I surmise that this was a comment printed in the press only.

There are a multitude of ways that a punishment could be rendered but if the system is not more uniform across the board for murderers, rapists, pedos, etc and the punishment is not uniform commensurate to the crime.

I just think the jail sentence is a bit harsh..