Ceramic Coating Debate

[Scott.T]

Whats it all about ?

In recent times the word on the car cleaning scene is 'ceramic coating', but what does it mean and why is it so expensive.

Now as some of you guys may know I like to keep a car clean.
Ever since my first car back in 1989 I've been happily waxing and polishing and working my way through new products as they hit the shelves.
From 1989 to early 2000's these have included T-Cut, Turtle Wax, Simoniz, Car Plan, Autoglym, Zydol & Meguiars.

The 'Detailing' scene then kicked in and you no longer 'Polished' your car, but you 'Detailed' it. I'm not sure what the difference is !!

Is it just the time you take to do it ?
Can you detail a car in 20 minutes ?
If you use more than 1 product, just it change from a Polish to a Detail ?
Or does detailing mean 'it took all day' ? If so I was probably 'detailing' with T-Cut back in 1989.

Since the word detailing has become part of the car cleaning vocabulary I have migrated to using product such as Chemical Guys, Poor Boys, Sonus and Menzerna.
The polishing cupboard/bag also gained a DA-6 oscillating polishing machine and various pads.

Now I must admit that spending many hours with a DA, various grades of product and a sun lamp to verify removal of swirlage is a great way to spend a day. But it's not a leisurely process, and you can expect to have a few aches and pains and dry hands as a result. But on a dark coloured car the impact of spending this time on the paint is well worth it.

My Black Leon FR was amazing, the White Cupra K1 was good but obviously not the same impact from a detail.
The Subaru has never been touched by my DA and still has original paint on 80% of the panels.

So back to my original question : What is Ceramic coating all about ?
Is it the same product that new and nearly new car dealers offer for £300 along with Scotch guarding your interior and back of the van wheel repairs.

I've always said no to this product, when offered. With my usual response being "I dont' want anything put on the paintwork (especially not by the apprentice with an old rag), as I like to maintain my own bodywork"

Is the ceramic coating service offered by professional detailer different to this.
Is this not doing themselves out of work ?
Surely a ceramic coated car would not need to see the detailer ever again, if it as good as they say.

Is Ceramic coating permanent ?

If any product or product marring remains on the panels prior to ceramic coating, just it end up trapped ?

How would you attack a scratch/blemish on a ceramic coated car ?

Is it just for the lazy, wash twice a year brigade ?

I could probably get the answers to all of the above via Google, but thought it would be a good topic to debate and share.

[Neil97rs]

My only understanding of this product is that it reduces swirl marks which can appear after a polish. However improper washing after application will still result in swirling
Along with protecting the paint from minor scratching. But not stone chips etc

As for is it permanent . Yes well as permanent as the paint
Anything already on the paint before application would get trapped under. I’m not sure of the environment it’s applied in but any moisture could potentially be trapped under the coating

I’ve not seen anything in regards to scratches or marks I would presume a new coat would need to be applied to the area

Personally I think it’s just another way if the dealer getting more money out of a buyer. Only plus side is easy washing and no polishing really required

Would it be as good as a really good clean by hand . Probably not but how many people want to spend several hours cleaning their cars ? Well apart from most members on this forum
Cannot answer all the questions but that’s my insight into the products

[Rdlangy1]

I don't know the technical ins and outs surrounding ceramic coating - as you say Scott, google will probably fill you in on that.

However I had my A6 ceramic coated by a "professional detailer" at significant cost - not a main dealer though - and I can say the results were quite impressive.

I, like yourself, take pride in my cars - and keeping them clean, and polished and waxed. The A6 was always kept clean and had around 2-3 thin layers of wax on.

However being black, the more I washed (no matter how safely) I still incurred swirl marks, and found contaminants such as tar was stick and require some form of clay bar or tar remover to clean off, no matter how good my wax protection was.

The A6 had a 2-stage machine polish, which using extremely good machines and in the hands of someone who has a passion and the knowledge for using them, is worth the money IMO on its own. Getting the foundations right are a must! and with the bodywork as good and contaminant / swirl free as it could be I had two layers of ceramic coating applied.

These bond to the paintwork and as the name suggest, use a chemical layer of coatings that "claim" to be as hard as ceramic. My understanding is that this means not only do they bond better, but "seal" the paint thus creating the tight beads we all dream off (or maybe just me! ) as the water cannot lay in the un-flat imperfect paintwork due to the layer of coatings.

Being harder than wax, the ceramic coating also lessens the effect of swirls being created through improper washing, and or stone flicks, rub marks e.t.c. Generally its harder so scratches less.

Wax layers can then be applied to a cured ceramic coating also, which provides a strong base layer for the wax to bond to.

I certainly found on the A6 that even when my wax layers on top of the ceramic coatings had diminished, the ceramic coating still beaded nicely, and the paint was remarkably less covered in swirl marks considering the frequency I washed it.

Does ceramic coating scratch - yes! but it takes more effort for everyday routines to do so in my experience.

I have recently tried to apply the AutoFinnese ceramics range to the Q5 - giving it a very good machine first, and then following the instructions supplied with each product. I was dissapointed! The window ceramic coating has lasted well - still beading nicely. But the paintwork ceramic hasn't - certainly compared to my A6!

This could be down to the chemical make up of the ceramic used - for instance the autofinesse bodywork is around £40-£50. The Miyabi / ISM ceramic coatings used on my A6 are around £250.

In short - I believe applied by someone who can get the paintwork looking as it should - ANY coating will suffice to protect, but ceramics seem to have the advantage when it comes to longevity, and protection, but are really only as good as the people who apply it, and what product is actually applied.

Great thread though - interested to see other peoples views...

[asperformance]

and here's me thinking we are talking exhausts...................

[Scott.T]

Thanks for the input Ryan. Although beading isnt such a great thing.
Sheeting water off is better.
A bead holds contaminants on the paint and when it air dry's leaves hundreds of dirt rings.
Most product bead initially but then switch to sheeting. When applying water it will literally drop off the paint leaving very little behind.

[Rdlangy1]

Originally Posted by Scott.T

Thanks for the input Ryan. Although beading isnt such a great thing.
Sheeting water off is better.
A bead holds contaminants on the paint and when it air dry's leaves hundreds of dirt rings.
Most product bead initially but then switch to sheeting. When applying water it will literally drop off the paint leaving very little behind.

Your correct Scott - and ceramic certainly does sheet water better than wax

[scooby doo]

Originally Posted by asperformance

and here's me thinking we are talking exhausts...................

so was i lol!

[scooby doo]

you guys would have a heart attack if you saw the paint on my wrx. been washed once in 8 months

[Rdlangy1]

Originally Posted by scooby doo

you guys would have a heart attack if you saw the paint on my wrx. been washed once in 8 months

Bring it over for a day then and get it looking better

[scooby doo]

Originally Posted by Rdlangy1

Bring it over for a day then and get it looking better

unless you have a spray gun in there its pointless,,
less paint = less weight =more poke.. i think??

next year il work on the top side.

[Rdlangy1]

Originally Posted by scooby doo

unless you have a spray gun in there its pointless,,

less paint = less weight =more poke.. i think??



next year il work on the top side.

[scotty]

Ceramic coating got it on the Foz alot of ****e if you ask me it has removed lacquer from me rear spoiler also you cant polish the car like you would normally do thank God it was already done by the last owner also got told it can last upto 2 years is there anyway it can be removed as I want to polish my Foz .

[Gerbil1028]

Following as interested to know what to use after respray

[Ginola]

Took my BM to Chandlers yesterday for recall, first thing I noticed on return to office is that some one with far less care than they should have has completely marred the bonnet and wings/doors I will need to re-mop the lot, If you dont have an eye for this sort of thing you probably wouldn't complain/moan get upset about such things, but you can clearly see they have washed it with a brillo pad and my once mirror like metalic paint on that car is now streaky swirl like!!.

I enjoy spending time to get them right
I've not used ceramics other than on wheels, and that was Gtechnic stuff which seemed to last well.