Sneaky VW...

[Steve_PPP]

Blimey, if this is true..... designing a software algorithm in cars that detect the emissions test procedure (hold at certain revs for fast idle test?? no idea how for normal idle??) and cutting emissions to pass. Presumably at the expense of performance which isn't needed during such a test.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...s-testing.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34311819

[iPond]

Wow. Sounds pretty conclusive, says in the Telegraph they have put their hands up to it! Pretty shocking and looks like a hefty fine they're facing as a result.

Wonder if it applies to UK models too or just the US? Do they have stricter emissions test out there?

[Red Baron]

I think it's just the US, emissions laws in some states are really tight hence so many people driving those Prius things in LA. I didn't think diesel cars were that popular in the US.

[C. J.]

The U.S. have crazy laws . The people in Ohio that my parents bought their camper off wanted a Mini Cooper but it doesn't pass their states emissions test , yet a 5 ltr pick up does as its comes under farming act !

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by C. J.

The U.S. have crazy laws . The people in Ohio that my parents bought their camper off wanted a Mini Cooper but it doesn't pass their states emissions test , yet a 5 ltr pick up does as its comes under farming act !

Guess that explains why so many people drive pick-ups over there then!

[C. J.]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

Guess that explains why so many people drive pick-ups over there then!

Yep no emissions test 👍

[Banstead Stig]

^ That and 'Murica.

They've seriously ****ed the group balance sheet over. $18bn fine. Stone the crows!

Wonder how big an effect it'll have overall.

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by Banstead Stig

They've seriously ****ed the group balance sheet over. $18bn fine. Stone the crows!

Wonder how big an effect it'll have overall.

Yeah. $18 billion plus the cost of rectifying the emissions on about half a million VW/Audi cars sold since 2009 in the states. If the engines are not able to pass the emissions test in the first place (hence the software added to the ECU) then making them pass isn't going to be cheap.... additional cats? How will this affect performance and will that open the door to further claims from people that their shiny new car doesn't perform as per the published manufacturers figures?

Quote from the US Chief Executive of VW:

Michael Horn admitted at an event in Brooklyn, New York, on Monday night that VW had been “dishonest” with regulators and the public.

Horn, speaking at an event to launch a new version of the Passat sedan, which featured rock star Lenny Kravitz, said: “Our company was dishonest with the EPA, and the California Air Resources Board and with all of you, and in my German words: we have totally screwed up.

You're not kidding

[Granby]

I wonder who's gonna be the first to offer this extra bit of software for cars that may have trouble passing MOT's

[iPond]

Seems it may affect vehicles outside of the US too according to the latest report on the beeb. A potential fine of $18B, lost share value of €14B and set aside costs of €6.5B to cover fallout.

Thats one very expensive 'screw up'!

Not sure on the conversion from $ - € but i reckon the figures about €35B as it stands. Someone must be facing the axe for that!

[Bolesroor]

11 million vehicles worldwide affected apparently?

[Red Baron]

Guess that rules them out of entering F1 with Red Bull then.

[Granby]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

Guess that rules them out of entering F1 with Red Bull then.

Was thinking that as well

[Steve_PPP]

I'm just hoping it doesn't make them think about cutting their WRC expenditure...

[Red Baron]

Could hit Audi in endurance racing and DTM as well.

[iPond]

Shame as Audi in F1 would be quite interesting. Really surprised Red Bull are prepared to ditch a manufacturer for a customer engine! No matter how poor the Renault is at the moment, its gotta be a better option long term? Thats why McLaren are taking the pain with Honda.

Would be good if it was just a short term option whilst they develop their own engine! Probably unlikely though.

[Ginola]

Subaru do something with an air pump on hawks and later cars for similar emission hacks, just saying!

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by iPond

Shame as Audi in F1 would be quite interesting. Really surprised Red Bull are prepared to ditch a manufacturer for a customer engine! No matter how poor the Renault is at the moment, its gotta be a better option long term? Thats why McLaren are taking the pain with Honda.

Would be good if it was just a short term option whilst they develop their own engine! Probably unlikely though.

But with Renault buying the Lotus team, Red Bull would become a customer if Renault continued to supply them.... besides, Red Bull have burnt their bridges there. They won 4 championships in a row with Renault in the 'blown diffuser' era when Renault was the best engine, yet Red Bull scooped the praise by saying it was all the car. Now they're struggling, they couldn't be quicker to criticise Renault.

All this rubbish with Dietrich Mateschitz threatening to quit the sport if Red Bull don't return to winning stinks of sour grapes if you ask me. The childish 'i'm not playing if i don't have the best toys' approach. From a PR perspective, it looks to have backfired on them quite nicely....

[iPond]

Yup have to agree. Do wonder though if Renault would have bothered sniffing around buying a team if Red Bull hadnt been so petulant over the last year?

Would be a shame if they left, and hope it is all just talk. Part of me feels that he is stubborn enough to do this just to prove he can though.

[Scott.T]

This is nothing new. It's just something the media and the American law suites have got their teeth into.

I can pretty much guarantee that most manufactures are doing it, because they all know the test scenario and modern ECU (especially with Drive-By-Wire throttle) can very accurately detect certain scenario's and react accordingly.

All manufacturers are probably sweating a bit at the moment.

Ask yourself why some manufactures fall marginally below emission levels and why some are above one year then drop on later years.
This isn't due to any major change in the vehicle mechanics but 'calibration' changes in the software.

Subaru back on the MY99/00 model (maybe MY97/98 aswell) had similar 'calibrations' for the drive by noise test. At the specified test speed/rpm the ECU would limit the boost to reduce the dB.

What annoys me is the media reaction stating :
"The public will be worried that they have a VW on their drive which doesn't meet the emission levels they thought it did."
The true response, especially in the UK, is that 98% of the public will have a car they are paying less road fund licence for then they should. So I don't think they will be too worried.

The other quote I heard today was :
"People have purchased a diesel in order to do their bit for the environment"
The true response is that 98% of the public brought a diesel because they are more fuel efficient and recent diesels, especially in the UK, have been very cheap to tax.

You may get the odd tree hugger that bought a VW over a Ford Focus because the emission levels were less, that in truth wanted the Ford Focus. So he/she may sue because he/she didn't get the car he really wanted based on the presented facts (or were they fiction !!!).

We all know that published MPG are well off what they should be, so why should we be surprised that emissions are too.

They also mentioned 11,000,000 vehicles may be subject to a recall. Why on earth would they need to do that. It's a piece of software that adjusts the mixture/timing under a certain scenario. IT ISN'T A FAULT...........by leaving this software in, it's actually helping the environment a small % of the time....DOH !!!!!!!

[Banstead Stig]

Don't think we'll be seeing a Chiron follow up either!

I actually wonder if that'll even launch given each Veyron was a loss maker!

[Red Baron]

[Ginola]

Originally Posted by Scott.T

This is nothing new. It's just something the media and the American law suites have got their teeth into.

I can pretty much guarantee that most manufactures are doing it, because they all know the test scenario and modern ECU (especially with Drive-By-Wire throttle) can very accurately detect certain scenario's and react accordingly.

All manufacturers are probably sweating a bit at the moment.

Ask yourself why some manufactures fall marginally below emission levels and why some are above one year then drop on later years.
This isn't due to any major change in the vehicle mechanics but 'calibration' changes in the software.

Subaru back on the MY99/00 model (maybe MY97/98 aswell) had similar 'calibrations' for the drive by noise test. At the specified test speed/rpm the ECU would limit the boost to reduce the dB.

What annoys me is the media reaction stating :
"The public will be worried that they have a VW on their drive which doesn't meet the emission levels they thought it did."
The true response, especially in the UK, is that 98% of the public will have a car they are paying less road fund licence for then they should. So I don't think they will be too worried.

The other quote I heard today was :
"People have purchased a diesel in order to do their bit for the environment"
The true response is that 98% of the public brought a diesel because they are more fuel efficient and recent diesels, especially in the UK, have been very cheap to tax.

You may get the odd tree hugger that bought a VW over a Ford Focus because the emission levels were less, that in truth wanted the Ford Focus. So he/she may sue because he/she didn't get the car he really wanted based on the presented facts (or were they fiction !!!).

We all know that published MPG are well off what they should be, so why should we be surprised that emissions are too.

They also mentioned 11,000,000 vehicles may be subject to a recall. Why on earth would they need to do that. It's a piece of software that adjusts the mixture/timing under a certain scenario. IT ISN'T A FAULT...........by leaving this software in, it's actually helping the environment a small % of the time....DOH !!!!!!!

such a lot of drama the Americans are the worst hypocritical bunch ever for this sort of thing, drives a 7 litre diesel pickup because it's exempt from emission laws (farm vehicle) "made in America" etc etc complains about a 60mpg VW being bad for the environment I can see it now!

And lol Shane

[Red Baron]

It's worrying the amount of people that want to claim damages against VW, 99% of people that bought them wanted a refined, economical diesel with a bit of poke and cheap tax and that's what they got, the government won't change the taxation class of them so it will make no difference to them at all, if everyone was to claim damages and then make VW bankrupt they'd only have themselves to blame when they can't claim on warranties or get parts. Can't see it coming to that but it will be interesting to see how it effects the other marque's like Bugatti, Bentley and Lamborghini, could they be bought up by Indian or Chinese investors when VW try to raise some cash.

[Ginola]

[iPond]

Originally Posted by Ginola

[thepieman]

Mis-sold TDI ? For more information click this link

[Ginola]

Originally Posted by thepieman

Mis-sold TDI ? For more information click this link

Rofl

[Banstead Stig]

I see Audi have confirmed its position on this now...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34377443

Hardly a surprise on the numbers. It will be interesting to see when the first non-Volkswagen AG group company has to break ranks with the same or similar cheat.

[Lazadude]

Its only on the poverty spec engines too, its not on all the Tdis.

On the powerful (170/190 bhp) 2.0s they have Urea additives which drop the particulate count, to save money they didn't include them on the 130/140 models and gave a larger fuel tank instead.

Unfortunately, most of the 2.0s sold are the lower range engines as they are the favourites of Lease/Company cars and people who buy a diesel to avoid tax.

All manufacturers will have gamed the test, same with the MPG test, you know the criteria, you program around it to sell cars. The issue with VAG, is they then thought they don't need the expensive tech on a basic car and thats whats cost them. Its why BMWs aren't affected, they all have urea / adblue additive systems.

Luckily Volkswagen AG can rely on the general population being stupid and saying "Volkswagen cheated the system, so I'm going to buy a Skoda/Seat/Audi next time round!".

[jmcc42uk]

Does this mean you can get a cheap deal on a VW at the min?

Might pop down to the dealers later