Hope they had correct insurance

[MIDLIFE]

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/de...?storyId=24438

[Lucky]

Ouch!. So easliy done though.

[Steve_PPP]

Yeah, been following this on BTG.

Looks like its partly the fault of the barrier repair team - not putting warning signs up in the right place. Trying to slow down from 100mph+ whilst on a long continuous bend would have been friggin difficult.



Lots of attention on it atm, especially as one of the Ring taxi's was involved. They've also been getting some grief on there too!

http://bridgetogantry.com/2/index.ph...&Itemid=300053

[Lucky]

Sorry, but that is ridiculous, hardly any warning, particularly if the traffic gets backed up a bit. If there is maintenance to be done, then in my opinion it should be closed - end off.

Reading through the Pistonheads thread, they are saying pretty much the same thing.

It's ****ing shocking just how little notice there is.

[AndyWRX]

Blimey, that could of been nasty if there was an accident, espically with the marshals walking around there too

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by AndyWRX

Blimey, that could of been nasty if there was an accident

There was..... see the first post. The youtube clip above was taken a few minutes before a group of cars creamed into that section too fast

Originally Posted by Lucky

Sorry, but that is ridiculous, hardly any warning, particularly if the traffic gets backed up a bit. If there is maintenance to be done, then in my opinion it should be closed - end off.

Have to agree mate, nobody likes the circuit to be closed when out there for the weekend, but its better closed than risking a crash because someones plonked a trunk round a blind bend.

[AndyWRX]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

There was..... see the first post.

ooops Sorry just clicked on the video feel like abit of a numpty now lol

Why give so little warning, espically on a track

It's the Ring it's a tad dangerous. Made worse buy the new owners who just don't care! I love this place. BUT every lap I did on the last visit had a crash on it. One of my laps had three separate crashes one involving 7cars! No way of a quick lap.

Originally Posted by Nige

It's the Ring it's a tad dangerous. Made worse buy the new owners who just don't care! I love this place. BUT every lap I did on the last visit had a crash on it. One of my laps had three separate crashes one involving 7cars! No way of a quick lap.

And to think, some people wanted to make our annual pilgrimage later in the year! When it's busier and the tracks "open more". I think it 's a case of the more the tracks open, the busier it gets and the more the tracks closed

Oh holy crap, Moleys reading this thread ..............


Dear Gary
I specifically chose the end of May for the SES trip to the ring, as there are statistically less crashes than any other time. Please please please please keep this in mind for next years ring insurance

Phew, all under control again guys

[Moley_WRX]

So many crashes out there at the moment.

Insurers are looking at The Ring very closely at the moment, expect it to be excluded from ALL policies very soon, meaning you'll need track cover if you want to be covered.

You know me Gary, I never go on track without it. I would never take that kind of risk.

[Moley_WRX]

A few years ago people would be able to get away with it.

Unfortunaltey a guy who had a claim kicked out took his insurers to court.... and lost.

Now that there is 'case law' and insurer refusing to pay can use this as an expaml;e and get out of paying.

The insurers and the judges know exactly what The Ring is, and it'll only get worse.

Eventually the owners of the Nurburgring will have to get people to sign disclaimers, saying they won't sue it there is an accident.

I rely on my own insurance out there right or wrong??? Don't know. I have read stories of people who have had track ins & still not being able to claim? I don't have the full story so there might be more to it. As a pure example if i bought track ins from yourself/company for the Ring & i A/ just crashed & hit the barrier needed recovery off the track. Would i be covered? B/ Crashed my fault , hit another car track closed for 1 hour. Both cars recovered track needed to be cleaned oil & stuff. Again would i be covered ?

[Skullfudge]

I think there is one option to consider.

Surely a private session would be the answer. KrissyP1 had one last year and it didn't turn out too expensive.
With the volume of us going in June it would surely work out fairly cheap and we will have the comfort of knowing there are no idiots, bikes, ice cream vans or such like on track.

As for track workers repairing sections of the track whilst open to the public that is crazy. Whether it's a race track or public toll road signage & cones must apply surely?


Watch Tommi Makinen's face at 1 minute 20 secs in this vid when he comes up to a maintenance truck whilst on a quick one.

[Anger]

How does track insurance work on a one way toll road... By EU law No insurance company can get out of paying on a road... the links to the EU rules are there on Pistonheads

[Moley_WRX]

Originally Posted by Anger

How does track insurance work on a one way toll road... By EU law No insurance company can get out of paying on a road... the links to the EU rules are there on Pistonheads

If the Nurburgring is really a public road why do people ask for track cover, and why do insurance companies provide it?

My opinion counts for nothing, it's the judges who are allowing claims to be thrown out.

If you had an accident on a public road can they charge you for road closure? If not why do they do it at The Ring it is't a road?

Regarding the EU thing... it basically means your insurers have to pay out for 3rd party claims, regardless of wether they void your policy or not. What the EU thing doesn't say if that if they void your policy they can (and will) take you to court to reclaim the costs.

[Anger]

Its a one way Toll road... That what the German police and goverment call it... So thats what it is

If i crashed and took out a roundabout... Who pays for the roudabout Gary

[Moley_WRX]

Your insurers would pay for the roundabout, but not for any road closure.

If you crashed on the M25 and closed it for hours you (or the insurers) wouldn't get charged for it being closed, only repairs.

It's a grey area, as it's a unique place.

The fact is that people in insurance a lot more clever than me have looked at it, and know they can get out of paying claims.

Wether i agree with it or not is irrelevent.

[Scott.T]

With what you guy's are throwing at your car's in terms of pound notes, surley £60 for 24 hour track cover is worth having. It's less then the cost of a tank of fuel but a whole lot of piece of mind.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by Moley_WRX

If you crashed on the M25 and closed it for hours you (or the insurers) wouldn't get charged for it being closed, only repairs.

What about the Dartford cossing or the M6 Toll road. Closure means loss of revenue, much like The Ring, so I would assume that M6 Toll and Dartford owners would try and claw that back.

[Anger]

I suppose if you wanted to, you could get out of every insurance claim on a modded car

[Anger]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

With what you guy's are throwing at your car's in terms of pound notes, surley £60 for 24 hour track cover is worth having. It's less then the cost of a tank of fuel but a whole lot of piece of mind.

People still havnt been payed by insurance companies even with track insurance

[Moley_WRX]

Originally Posted by Anger

People still havnt been payed by insurance companies even with track insurance

That is true, some of the track insurance isn't worth much at all (only covers your own car)

NOT ours i'd add!!!

[simonairheadz]

there was a total twat at a missbanzai tunnel run once nothing to do with the run but stuffed his pulsar in the blackwall tunnel at the very very begining of the run(from the 02) blocked the tunnel for one hour

[Anger]

The problem with track insurance is £180 for three days and one of those days you might just do the one lap as its busy or it gets closed.... Might not even do the one lap if the bitburg gets the best of you

Originally Posted by Anger

The problem with track insurance is £180 for three days and one of those days you might just do the one lap as its busy or it gets closed.... Might not even do the one lap if the bitburg gets the best of you

Now, here is a quote I agree with 100%.

However, I still would not want to take the risk personally.

I have ended up only doing 3 laps in 3 years, but would still take it out just in case.

[Moley_WRX]

On the bright side most companies charge £250 PER DAY, so that would be expensive!

Originally Posted by Moley_WRX

On the bright side most companies charge £250 PER DAY, so that would be expensive!

It would that!

The biggest trouble is, you can never guarantee when you will be able to get out. As me and James were saying on the phone earlier, you can get down there first thing and get a lap or 2 in, then it's the usual ring bedlam. You then go away and come back later when you hope it's quietened down, only to find it closed for the day. Meaning, if you miss that early window of opportunity, you just might not get out at all that day.

But the truth of the matter is, again as me and James were saying earlier, it's about all the peripheral stuff, not just the track. Hence the reason, only 3 laps in 3 years and still happy about going down there, it's just a fookin hoot.

Bitburger anyone

[Moley_WRX]

I speak to a guy on Scoobynet called Andy (MADDOG) who is a Ring veteran. Beem there literally hundreds of times.

He only goes these these days as a social thing, as he has made many friends over there, and loves the place.

He hardly goes on the actual track (sorry, road ) these days, as he says it's full of idiots trying to beat their own times, and who have no respect for other users.

He reckons if you want to go round the Ring go in the middle of the week, as it's the only time it gets quiet(ish), as weekends and bank holidays get too busy, and is almost impossible to get a decent lap in.

Originally Posted by Moley_WRX

I speak to a guy on Scoobynet called Andy (MADDOG) who is a Ring veteran. Beem there literally hundreds of times.

He only goes these these days as a social thing, as he has made many friends over there, and loves the place.

He hardly goes on the actual track (sorry, road ) these days, as he says it's full of idiots trying to beat their own times, and who have no respect for other users.

He reckons if you want to go round the Ring go in the middle of the week, as it's the only time it gets quiet(ish), as weekends and bank holidays get too busy, and is almost impossible to get a decent lap in.

That is exactly what it's like Gary.

It's one of those places you should tick off the list without doubt, but I would head down there midweek for track time without doubt.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by Moley_WRX

these days, as he says it's full of idiots trying to beat their own times, and who have no respect for other users.

He's met our resident EVO driver then ???

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

He's met our resident EVO driver then ???

[simonairheadz]

Realisticly it would be better building insurance cover into each lap price!
Therefore you only pay for insurance whilst actually on track!
Everyones covered therefore no wasted money!
But I'm sure this would never happen as it's just to simple.

Originally Posted by simonairheadz

Realisticly it would be better building insurance cover into each lap price!
Therefore you only pay for insurance whilst actually on track!
Everyones covered therefore no wasted money!
But I'm sure this would never happen as it's just to simple.

Like you say Simon, it's too simple, so not a chance of it happening.

What a cracking idea though, If only it was implementable.

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer

He's met our resident EVO driver then ???

Must have got lucky this year as managed 4 laps without any real traffic, 2 in the morning and two in the afternoon. But then I didn't see it busy enough to queue out across the roundabout at any time when we were over there!

[BIG"E"]

What insurance do the Germans have?

Can we not go to a German insurance company and get insurance?

[ajf]

Originally Posted by worzel

Like you say Simon, it's too simple, so not a chance of it happening.

What a cracking idea though, If only it was implementable.

What makes you think the owners wouldn't do it all that extra cash plus the money from excess would cover most repairs to the track most excess are around 2 half grand

Originally Posted by ajf

What makes you think the owners wouldn't do it all that extra cash plus the money from excess would cover most repairs to the track most excess are around 2 half grand

Adrian, I'm not saying that owners wouldn't want to do it at all.

I would imagine that the percentage to back a plan like this would be very high indeed.

There would however, be many problems to iron out though.

How would you charge it for instance? By that I mean, would you expect the owner of a brand spanking GT3 RS and the owner of some 15 year old barely road legal Polo to pay the same amount?

Would something like this, encourage the owners of said Polo to drive even more recklessly? Knowing they are completely covered, no matter what carnage they cause or who they hit or how many fluids they lay down on the track?

At the end of the day, yes the place is for all intents and purposes a "toll road", but we all know that is utter ********. The new owners IMHO should bite the bullet and get rid of that tag and then treat it as the race circuit it most obviously is. It could then control what goes out there, for example stopping bikes and cars being allowed out at the same time, which is just ridiculous. It could even have ANPR type cameras on the barriers to stop any illegal cars (un-insured / no MOT etc) being admitted.

It's all just pie in the sky though unfortunately, they will just continue down the same route, letting people out there willy nilly, in utter sheds, driven by idiots.

All of this will still however not stop me going, I just like to bitch about it

[Anger]

Originally Posted by Moley_WRX

I speak to a guy on Scoobynet called Andy (MADDOG) who is a Ring veteran. Beem there literally hundreds of times.

He only goes these these days as a social thing, as he has made many friends over there, and loves the place.

He hardly goes on the actual track (sorry, road ) these days, as he says it's full of idiots trying to beat their own times, and who have no respect for other users.

He reckons if you want to go round the Ring go in the middle of the week, as it's the only time it gets quiet(ish), as weekends and bank holidays get too busy, and is almost impossible to get a decent lap in.

Haha he did more laps than i saw any other car do last time

[Anger]

Pick your times and drive like you would on any country road... well thats how i drive it

[Lucky]

There will come a time where the owners will have to take some responsibility, or it will be closed and redeveloped, which wouldn't surprise me if that is the plan anyway. There are so many accidents and fatalities that it will get stopped at some point. When you think about it, its a recipe for disaster with the amount of inexperienced people on it, and that includes me!. Its incredible that you can turn up, pay and go out, without even proving you have a license or the car is legal.


All that said, its an incredible place, and I for one, love it!!. I love our trips down there and would still go even if I wasnt going on track, just for the hoot we have going down, the great few days while we are there and watching some complete numpties flirting with the reaper!!

[Moley_WRX]

The reason they won't offer insurance themselves is because they'd loose a massive amount of money.

Nobody would offer then reinsurance either, as the risk is far too high.

Anger - Andy is the best bloke to speak to about anything Ring related. Without discussing his details, he knows the risks, and has paid for it.

I can't understand why if it's really a public road why do they not allow recovery vehicles on there except the ones from their 'approved' company? If it's a public road any recovery agent should be allowed on there.

[Moley_WRX]

Originally Posted by Anger

Pick your times and drive like you would on any country road... well thats how i drive it

Unfortunately not everyone uses that sensible approach.

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by Moley_WRX

I can't understand why if it's really a public road why do they not allow recovery vehicles on there except the ones from their 'approved' company? If it's a public road any recovery agent should be allowed on there.

Thats one of the problems Gary - its only a public road when Nurburgring GmBH want it to be!

They call it that to suit the legal situation in Germany, yet the rest of the time are happy to consider it a private circuit where only their rules apply.

[Moley_WRX]

Originally Posted by Steve_PPP

Thats one of the problems Gary - its only a public road when Nurburgring GmBH want it to be!

They call it that to suit the legal situation in Germany, yet the rest of the time are happy to consider it a private circuit where only their rules apply.

Exactly

[BIG"E"]

But what do the Germans do about insurance does anyone know??

Come on really! Sensible! fast cars & the most notorious race track in the world the two dont fully mix. Your not going to take mother whats her face some flowers.
I like the bikes being on there it all adds to the danger thing. I like the close stuff with the other cars. Two of my favorite moments were with an Aston going sideways towards my n/side & one that keeps replaying in my head. On the inside of a fully prept track M3 going into the Carousel & i came out in front. Gap wise on exit {as it puts you to the right} no more than a midgy's pubic hair! Now that still makes me smile If i had been to sensible i wouldn't have this fantastic memory.

[asperformance]

part of the reason they wont inspect your car (or you) is that then implies complicity in any error/accident as they have "passed" you

same reason TDO's in this country dont inspect vehicles

They inspected mine & banned me in May? They make there own rules just depends what natzi/sorry German gent you get.