Power

[kartingsteve]

I was think the other day at what point is the right power to aim for went talking about a scooby mainly for the road, because I been a member of SS about 7 years and mine is still only 326 hp and would still like a bit more but when people start to go for big power say 400 to 500 they have to send a lot of money to get there but I think what you gain in power you loose the driver-ability and end up not keeping the car very long because it is to extreme as in the more power the big the turbo the less bottom end you have so its all or nothing, good down the pub but not as good on the road or am I getting to old .
OK is more power the way to go ? , Me is thinking 2.5 up to 400 with not to big turbo what are your thoughts .

[Anger]

Im thinking 2.5 480ish myself

[kartingsteve]

Originally Posted by Anger

Im thinking 2.5 480ish myself

That does sound good and for the track that the nuts but why do a lot people sell once they get big power.

[Anger]

Because they over spend and cant afford it to go pop... you have to add money for problems and other bits that may break when adding up how much you want to spend when doubling the power it was ment for from factory

[Dave Beck]

412/425 was awesome Steve on my 2.5 but you know how many issues ive had and thats after spending the money and upgrading the essentials

[Anger]

Im thinking the problem im having is coming from a stripped out RA running 450+ to a heavy newage... just going to need a lot to get close to the RA

[Dave Beck]

520 ish i reckon mate

[2-jaffacake-tone]

why stop there lol

[Broadside Brenda]

I know im going a bit mad with my car but i sometimes wish i had just kept with a solid 2.0 bottem end with a decent set of cams, a decent turbo and have a nice revvy / snappy 400bhp, done. Quick enough for the road and still nice and driveable. Its very easy to get carried away with big power figures but where do you stop?
As Anger said ....you have to add money for problems and other bits that may break when adding up how much you want to spend when doubling the power it was meant for from factory.

[C. J.]

Have ej257 block halfs for sale if you decide to go 2.5

[Lucky]

[QUOTE=Broadside Brenda;62441]I know im going a bit mad with my car but i sometimes wish i had just kept with a solid 2.0 bottem end with a decent set of cams, a decent turbo and have a nice revvy / snappy 400bhp, done. Quick enough for the road and still nice and driveable. QUOTE]


Which is exactly where I want mine!. I will be in touch again soon Brent, as I drove Nick's STI Friday after its subtle mods!, and also on the tein thing aswell. Oh no, here we go again!.

[kartingsteve]

Originally Posted by Anger

Im thinking the problem im having is coming from a running 450+ to a heavy newage... just going to need a lot to get close to the RA

Your stripped out RA would have be more than 400hp per ton and they is not much on the road with that to, get the same in a Sti you will need an extra 100hp say about 550hp but does the Sti handle better if it does it still may still be a faster car overall .

[Mike L]

For the road a 2.1 400-450 would be nice

If you can afford it the 2.35 are the best with Vecs and a billet 30 for road and tight sprints or a billet 35 for track stuff.

I am not a fan of the 2.5's been there and got fed up!

[Spooky]

Originally Posted by Mike L

For the road a 2.1 400-450 would be nice

If you can afford it the 2.35 are the best with Vecs and a billet 30 for road and tight sprints or a billet 35 for track stuff.

I am not a fan of the 2.5's been there and got fed up!

Echo mike, a stroker 400-450 makes for an awesome road car... you don't need any more than that for road use.

[Justin]

IMO 300HP/ton is all you need for a road car, the lighter the better too

[RobEvo5]

I've had a stroker 400+ STI8, and I now have a 300 ish BHP classic. The stroker STI8 with S206 was great and it loved to rev, but unless you are a very brave driver in reality for road use it was wasted on me. About the only time I could ever get to appreciate its potential was on a dual carraige way blast.

My lighter classic with less power is just as much fun to drive, I just have to rev it all the way to the redline and use a few more gears than I did in the STI8. But bouncing the revs off the redline and using all the gears makes for more fun for me personally.

Oh and the classic is a fraction of the price of the STI8, and I don't run scared of blowing up an expensive engine build like I did in the stroker, as a result I feel more inclined to punish the car on the odd occassion I like to have a bit of fun. And If the engine blows I'll just drop another lump in for a few hundred.

[Anger]

can you really give a point of view on a STi8 that you had for a few days Rob lol

[RobEvo5]

Originally Posted by Anger

can you really give a point of view on a STi8 that you had for a few days Rob lol

Fair point - But also sort of goes to reinforce my thoughts - as nice as it was it didn't blow me way enough to want to keep it....... Without wishing to get flammed it was just another subaru, albiet a quicker one.

[Scott.T]

Originally Posted by RobEvo5

Fair point - But also sort of goes to reinforce my thoughts - as nice as it was it didn't blow me way enough to want to keep it....... Without wishing to get flammed it was just another subaru, albiet a quicker one.

IIRC it also had so much kit on it that most would run scared of doing anything to it themselves.
Fine if you have deep pockets and little knowledge or care for car electronics/mechanics. But if you have limited funds and like to get involved yourself it was a little too bespoke to get your hands dirty on.

I know i will properly get blown away when i say big power don't mean fast car.

[RobEvo5]

Originally Posted by Nige

I know i will properly get blown away when i say big power don't mean fast car.

Very valid point - If my car was tricked up to the hilt with suspension mods and sticky tyres - I have absolutely no doubt my car on some twisities would be a complete road warrior and in the right hands would be able to take on and beat pretty much anything, and that's with just circa 300bhp.

However I like a little bit of suspension and comfort so happy with what I have - And ticks yet another compromise balance which is wht life is all about.

Nige stop being so reserved and say what you really meant - is that big HP for road use is just willing waving. But nowt wrong with that if thats your thing, in much the same way as driving say a porsche is more about my job/dick is bigger and better than yours, than the car itself - Whatever floats your boat.!

Now where is that flame jacket

[Anger]

Yes but on track days straights and on the straight road the bigger bhp car will blow you away

I have just got my STi8 where I wanted it to be when I put my 2.5 lump in 18 months ago. It was an expensive process from the very beginning and just got more and more expensive

But after loads of aggro and empty pockets it sits at what I consider to be a very drivable 425bhp / 419 ft lb at 1.5bar of boost.

But to echo Niges comment, it doesn't really count for much (IMHO) if the suspension set up is not right. That was a major part of my project for me, getting that right.

At the end of the day though, it's all down to what floats your boat. Some people want big power, some people want drivability etc etc. There is no right or wrong if it's what YOU want.

[RobEvo5]

Originally Posted by Anger

can you really give a point of view on a STi8 that you had for a few days Rob lol

Agree about track days, and a bigger HP set up right will always beat the lesser HP car - Simple physics. But not such a comparison on the road IMO

In road conditions you have to factor lumps and bumps, and other road traffic and not being totally wreckless and factor those who wont get out of your way to give you the racing line. I'm not one for preaching on about "shouldn't be driving fast on public roads yadayada". But even on straight and dual carriage way blasts you have to factor the next car ahead of you in the fast lane, and how much ground can you truly make on an open road before you are on top of the car ahead of you in the distance.

I've pitched many a quick car against very quick cars, and yes they would pull away on a straight, but would hardly blow me away, just pull away a few car lengths at best and by the time both parties are getting into there stride the car up in front gets in the way. By this time its back to the twisities and then it boils down to a. how much bottle you have and b. How wreckless you want to be. But very rarely in my experience has it been the car thats let me down... But maybe I'm just getting older and just a little but more sensible..

I have even tested many of my many cars back to back against some seirous machinery on my yearly jaunt to le-man and the same principle applies even on the loverly French motorways. Mucho bonkers fast car is quicker but hardly blows me away in a moderately fast car.

But as Mr Worzel has pointed its more about what you want and whatever floats your boat, and more importantly IMO if its all done within a budget poeple can afford as desposable income.

Bloody hell I am getting too old an cynical these days - Volvo next for me then.!

[kartingsteve]

Originally Posted by Anger

Yes but on track days straights and on the straight road the bigger bhp car will blow you away

yes on the straights hp will always win but over a lap that is not the case it more down to setup and the driver but hp will always help, but the more hp the better the driver you need to be to get the full potential out of it .At the end of the day its how much fun it is

[Anger]

Ask Adrian about our little play on the way home Saturday... Heavy New age V's Modded 22B... i think he was just a little surpriced as i disapeared

Fulhams Racing Exige would out handle anything on this site but everytime i could give it some beans i was past him, on my 2.5 i make 1.8bar at just below 3700rpm on my ACVR

[kartingsteve]

Its all that torque you must have with a 2.5

Originally Posted by Anger

Ask Adrian about our little play on the way home Saturday... Heavy New age V's Modded 22B... i think he was just a little surpriced as i disapeared

Fulhams Racing Exige would out handle anything on this site but everytime i could give it some beans i was past him, on my 2.5 i make 1.8bar at just below 3700rpm on my ACVR

I let Martyn (Crowman) take mine for a quick blat yesterday. I think he was surprised how quick my "Heavy" newage was, and thats at 1.5 bar boost

I can vouch for how quick James "Heavy" newage is, having been behind it a LOT in Germany

[Anger]

Originally Posted by kartingsteve

Its all that torque you must have with a 2.5

437bhp 477lbs/ft on its safe map and was 452bhp 507lbs/ft on the full map all on V power mapped by JGM .... So yes a bit of torque mate

Originally Posted by Anger

437bhp 477lbs/ft on its safe map and was 452bhp 507lbs/ft on the full map all on V power mapped by JGM .... So yes a bit of torque mate

A BIT more!

A **** load more, more like

[Anger]

Have another turbo sitting at home ready to go on as well, just need a few other bits to fit to get the most out of it

[RobEvo5]

My STI8 with 440bhp was fecking quick to be in and drive but couldnt neccessarily significantly out run or destroy my classic on UK roads, and my Audi S4 with 440bhp/500ftlb felt mental quick with enough torque to pull a house.

In terms of measuring fun the STI8 was most definately more FUN than my classic, but still to this day the twin turbo S4 was something special in the way it delivered the power and for Road use. I couldn't help but grin from ear to ear every time I pressed the loud pedal - So much torque at any gear, any revs and at any speed. 9/10 for fun factor.

That said the second most fun on wheels I have ever had was 240bhp MX5 turbo. Traction was a nightmare in pretty much any gear, and was bouncing off the redline at about 120mph. But 9/10 in the fun factor department.

Hence I am currently considering a turbo charged S1 elise with 220bhp, and coilovers. or another S4 with 460bhp/500ft/lb. Both of which I reckon should be about as much fun on wheels as you could possibly get on a budget.

[Anger]

Rob a mate has a RS4 pushing out 570bhp and i leave him all the time on the road and drag strip.... they weigh about 1900kg dont they and when i drove it i thought it was very boring to drive, no feel in the steering and you just didnt know how fast you was travelling... how does the S4 compare ?

I tried quite a few cars before i went for another scoob after the RA

[RobEvo5]

Originally Posted by Anger

Rob a mate has a RS4 pushing out 570bhp and i leave him all the time on the road and drag strip.... they weigh about 1900kg dont they and when i drove it i thought it was very boring to drive, no feel in the steering and you just didnt know how fast you was travelling... how does the S4 compare ?

I tried quite a few cars before i went for another scoob after the RA

Bench marking it aginst my S4 - A 570bhp RS4 should be a beast and would need some serious machinery to beat it so there can be no mistaking you must have a serious beasty scoob on your hands.

The S4 felt really quick and way quicker than the 2.1 stoker STI8, but in truth that was more due to the torque and the spool of the twin K04 turbos. As a lazy car to drive and a road car that doesn't make a fuss is was great. But altough the S4 felt quick and suited my driving style, I'm very sure the 2.1 stoker in the right gear and with the extra revs would probably beat it due the better handling and higher revs. But the S4 still Felt quicker, because you could exploit the power more often in half way sensible day to day driving.

For me the S4 was also more fun because it was less shouty, it done it so easily without fuss and without waiting for the turbo to kick in. In any other car the lack of drama would make it dull, but at that kind of power level it was still undeniably proper quick and just made me grin every time I squirted it. It just felt like it shouldn't be doing what it did, and a freak of science and nature.

On a motorway with the S4 you could plant it in 6th at 80mph and it would accelerate as if you were doing a 2nd gear pull. But yes the S4 was lardy and was let down in the corners and top end power. It didn't like to rev and was akin to driving a turbo diesal. Just with shed loads more power and some more revs, but when you really wanted to press on and pitched it against other machinery the lack of revs and top end power would let it down.

This was proved during my trip to le-man. Even my Mates E46 M3 was all over me during a blast back during the early hours of the morning from the Euro tunnel to Hastings. But on the french motorway roads, I could just squirt it in 6th and take off whilst most things were still fishing for gears having realised I'm off.

Both great cars for different reasons and definately both at a different level in the power stakes.

[Anger]

Even a mates 400bhp Evo6 use to pull away from the RS4 from the lights, get to higher speeds and the RS4 was gone, but with a 70 mph speed limit it was to late... Same for the drag strip... He would be catching at the end but it was to late by then

Not many cars can get off the line like a scoob... I had my 0-60 fts down to 1.5 secs on the RA and 1.6 on the heavy newage... Whats 0-60 mph in under 4 secs, best in the RA being 3.54

[Lucky]

I think, for one of our meets, we should find a 1 mile strip, line up a few of our cars and see what the real difference is. It would be really interesting see what the real world difference is with the different mods.

[Anger]

Just pull your fingers out and come to Santa pod with us at Surrey one weekend

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by Anger

Just pull your fingers out and come to Santa pod with us at Surrey one weekend

Cool. would make for a great meet.

[Hongkongfooi]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Cool. would make for a great meet.

i'd like to see that as well!

Originally Posted by Anger

Just pull your fingers out and come to Santa pod with us at Surrey one weekend

I cant launch to save my life! Ive tried & it just bog's down. Anger you would have to show me how its done there must be a real knack to this drag malarkey.

[Anger]

6000rpm... side step clutch

Originally Posted by Anger

6000rpm... side step clutch

Bloody ANIMAL !!!

[Jolly Green Monster]

Originally Posted by kartingsteve

I was think the other day at what point is the right power to aim for went talking about a scooby mainly for the road, because I been a member of SS about 7 years and mine is still only 326 hp and would still like a bit more but when people start to go for big power say 400 to 500 they have to send a lot of money to get there but I think what you gain in power you loose the driver-ability and end up not keeping the car very long because it is to extreme as in the more power the big the turbo the less bottom end you have so its all or nothing, good down the pub but not as good on the road or am I getting to old .
OK is more power the way to go ? , Me is thinking 2.5 up to 400 with not to big turbo what are your thoughts .

slight mishap with my daily driver and it is currently SORN so my NOW daily driver has better power to weight than a bugatti veyron.. and I am absolutely loving it!! perhaps slightly insane but what the hell..

Simon

You are a fooooookin animal!

Good going Mr Giant

[Skullfudge]

Having come up through the ranks from 310 Bhp the current 540 I would agree with much that has been said by Anger, Spooky, Mike and Rob.

The major difference I have found regarding driving on the roads are the road surfaces. 450 - 475 in a classic is about the limit without studying the road surface ahead.

500+ is very different as I am sure Simon will agree. A bump in a bend whilst on boost will throw you off in an instant. A lot will depend on set up of suspension etc.

Driving hard through the lanes with 500+ and a good set up is fantastic fun but you fully realise it's fantastically dangerous too.

450 - 475 would be sensible fast fun.

I can't imagine what it would be like driving through lanes with 500+ bhp. A scary hoot springs to mind?

[kartingsteve]

Driving fast down lanes is more about balls than hp I'v only got 326 and in lanes that is fast or I'm I getting to old

[Steve_PPP]

Originally Posted by kartingsteve

Driving fast down lanes is more about balls than hp

Have to agree, the country roads i use always have a horse or lorry in the road around the next corner!

[Mike L]

Tyres make a masive difference as well mine on the 700 map is fine on the lanes as long as the R888's are on and its dry (I am sure simon can confirm drivable but fast). The ideal think about the syvecs is at the twist of a swich I can change to 1 of 8 different maps depending on conditions

I still drive relativly fast on the road but the track is the only place you can safley push the car to the full limits

I still drive relativly fast on the road but the track is the only place you can safley push the car to the full limits

Or an airfield